Planet Minis

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 07:28 PM

The Kitaco(One ring) piston is similar to the Autoboy(Two ring) and the Athena similar to the Malossi

minirazor · 09-26-2009, 07:37 PM

Yes You are correct but the the FOUR STROKE engines are evolving, two stroke engines haven't for a few years. Don't get me wrong I love 2T BIKES (I have a few)
but I think 4T are taking over....

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

Yes You are correct but the the FOUR STROKE engines are evolving, two stroke engines haven't for a few years. Don't get me wrong I love 2T BIKES (I have a few)
but I think 4T are taking over....

Its the Al Gore effect......

reynolds_brad · 09-26-2009, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

Yes You are correct but the the FOUR STROKE engines are evolving, two stroke engines haven't for a few years. Don't get me wrong I love 2T BIKES (I have a few)
but I think 4T are taking over....

Completely disagree on that one. 2 strokes have made HUGE advancements in the last few years with DPI. So much that it could end up being a game changer.

Sure they sat stagnant for years but they just might make a come back. Not in the US but in the EU.

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 08:42 PM

I offer to start a 2st VS 4st thread.....

reynolds_brad · 09-26-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCNSR

I offer to start a 2st VS 4st thread.....

Why bother, everyone knows the diff and ups and downs. Its a pointless debate that wont solve anything.

You guys want to see something seriously interesting google 6 stroke engine. Ide love to see someone develop that one further.

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reynolds_brad

Why bother, everyone knows the diff and ups and downs. Its a pointless debate that wont solve anything.

You guys want to see something seriously interesting google 6 stroke engine. Ide love to see someone develop that one further.

I was just trying to prevent an endless "Less filling/Tastes great" style debate

pecore nere ufficiose/Unoffical Black Sheep. Italian isnt considered a foreign language in New York

minirazor · 09-26-2009, 09:27 PM

2 Stroke technology has been at a stand still for many years. KTM, GasGas, TM, Husky and a few others are trying to improve the technology. Yamaha still mfg smokers, but pushes the 4 stroke. Suzuki is getting back into the 2 stroke, but not in the US. The problem is the all R&D had been put into the thumpers. The real question is, What are the Japanese MFG’s afraid of?… They are afraid that since they’ve dumped so much into the R&D of thumpers, that a smoker with yesterday’s technology will….. “smoke” their thumpers. (Pun intended). I'm not against 2T's or in favor of 4T's it's just what I hear, read and see all around.....Yeah lets not make it into a debate..

Sorry dude!

Ti senti meglio adesso?

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

2 Stroke technology has been at a stand still for many years. KTM, GasGas, TM, Husky and a few others are trying to improve the technology. Yamaha still mfg smokers, but pushes the 4 stroke. Suzuki is getting back into the 2 stroke, but not in the US. The problem is the all R&D had been put into the thumpers. The real question is, What are the Japanese MFG’s afraid of?… They are afraid that since they’ve dumped so much into the R&D of thumpers, that a smoker with yesterday’s technology will….. “smoke” their thumpers. (Pun intended). I'm not against 2T's or in favor of 4T's it's just what I hear, read and see all around.....Yeah lets not make it into a debate..here is a pic of my 22 year old smoker....

Look i dont mean to offend,But you are jacking this thread,There is already a pic of your bike(Nice)in the "Post pics of your bike thread".........

rjpracing · 09-26-2009, 10:15 PM

f.y.i. you guys know you can change port timing on these engines by lowering the height of the piston on the exaust port side which in turn raises the exaust port for more top end? cheaper than moding cylinders for testing so you get it right before you grind cylinders. since we are talking about 2strokes. its what we use to do to my pcr race kart engines back in the day. http://www.pcrargentina.com.ar/fotos/tag125.jpg

minirazor · 09-26-2009, 10:37 PM

None taken!! I'm not trying to jack this tread it's just a pic of a 22 year old ysr with some mods and a little bit of bling, I know my bike has not much bling as your bike but if you feel offended by my post I'll delete it....ok?....tutto bene su questo latto.
arrivederci!!

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

None taken!! I'm not trying to jack this tread it's just a pic of a 22 year old ysr with some mods and a little bit of bling, I know my bike has not much bling as your bike but if you feel offended by my post I'll deleted....ok?....tutto bene su questo latto.
arrivederci!!

I am not offended but it dosent belong here,My bike has nothing to do with it......... tutto bene,Ciao amico!!

Jeff Lebowski · 09-26-2009, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCNSR

The transfer ports are also noticeably larger on the Malossi most likely because unlike the Autoboy/Honda cylinder the Malossi was designed with 65+cc's in mind........

Are you saying the Malossi jug is a bespoke piece? Based on those skirts I wouldn't be surprised if both manufacturers took OE Honda cylinders and worked them over.

On a different note, have you done research to see what kind of power the bottom end can withstand before getting into it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

Yes You are correct but the the FOUR STROKE engines are evolving, two stroke engines haven't for a few years. Don't get me wrong I love 2T BIKES (I have a few) but I think 4T are taking over....

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

2 Stroke technology has been at a stand still for many years. KTM, GasGas, TM, Husky and a few others are trying to improve the technology.

You should check out this article. Seems two-stroke technology is still being developed.

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 11:10 PM

The Autoby kit is based on a used OEM steel Honda cylinder,The Malossi is a cast iron clean sheet design engineered and manufactured by Malossi.......So i guess Bespoke would be appropriate.As far as the bottom end they are widely regarded to be stout,Anything can be broken but it dosent seem to be a pressing issue as far as i can see.I am sure although it might not break outright it certainly will wear faster.......The clutch seems to be the weak link they practically throw them out and run CR80 clutches,Ditto the intakes(again CR80)along with RS125 Coils they seem to have a fetish for the OEM Honda parts catalog(Japanese mini bike racers)

minirazor · 09-26-2009, 11:28 PM

hey NCNSR what size carb are you gonna use with the new cyl ??

NCNSR · 09-26-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minirazor

hey NCNSR what size carb are you gonna use with the new cyl ??

A 24mm Flatslide with a Kitaco manifold on the Malossi and see how it goes,The Autoboy i will probably go with a CR80 intake and most likely a PWK28, I also have a PE24 kicking around.....Somewhere in this mess! This is the reed valve i am going to run and part of the reason for the CR80 manifold the Kitaco just dosent line up well with it,The reed valve was intended for a CR80 manifold

reefmuncher · 09-27-2009, 05:33 AM

Wow some serious debate going on!!!!

I agree two strokes could be the game changer for sure, just for the moment the emission and fuel economy levels are not stringent enough to justify a shift away from the tried and tested fourstrokes.

Looking at the pics it's hard to tell but the Autoboy looks neater with the angles on the transfers angled more centered to the piston crown, were the Malossi is still forward across the front of the boost port. The main thing is the port timing really and that's not possible to see with out a port map and measurements.

The thing that is a shame is the Malossi design is probably quite old like the one they make for the 80cc engine which is late 80's early 90's. So it's cast iron and doesn't have snazzy auxilary or bridged exhaust ports like the more modern race kits they make. I guess if the MBX which was the NSR's precursor came out later the design could have been more up to date.

One way to do the port timing is to make a shim for the base gasket and machine the top of the block to suit. Guys in Europe cut 4mm off!! I think it'll be cool to see which ends up being better, but I think in the end it'll just be down to how either is ported as both provide a suitable base platform to work with and in the end it's up to the tuner to make it work as they see fit!

NCNSR · 09-27-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefmuncher

Wow some serious debate going on!!!!

I agree two strokes could be the game changer for sure, just for the moment the emission and fuel economy levels are not stringent enough to justify a shift away from the tried and tested fourstrokes.

Looking at the pics it's hard to tell but the Autoboy looks neater with the angles on the transfers angled more centered to the piston crown, were the Malossi is still forward across the front of the boost port. The main thing is the port timing really and that's not possible to see with out a port map and measurements.

The thing that is a shame is the Malossi design is probably quite old like the one they make for the 80cc engine which is late 80's early 90's. So it's cast iron and doesn't have snazzy auxilary or bridged exhaust ports like the more modern race kits they make. I guess if the MBX which was the NSR's precursor came out later the design could have been more up to date.

One way to do the port timing is to make a shim for the base gasket and machine the top of the block to suit. Guys in Europe cut 4mm off!! I think it'll be cool to see which ends up being better, but I think in the end it'll just be down to how either is ported as both provide a suitable base platform to work with and in the end it's up to the tuner to make it work as they see fit!

When i sent the Malossi out to be worked on i stressed the fact that it would be going on a street driven bike and i wanted a certain amount of driveablility(Torque)The only thing to do know is install it and see how she runs,I can always send it back for adjustments at a later date(They are free) My only regret is not sending the cases along to be matched to the transfers in the cylinder..........

reefmuncher · 09-27-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCNSR

When i sent the Malossi out to be worked on i stressed the fact that it would be going on a street driven bike and i wanted a certain amount of driveablility(Torque)The only thing to do know is install it and see how she runs,I can always send it back for adjustments at a later date(They are free) My only regret is not sending the cases along to be matched to the transfers in the cylinder..........

Yeah I agree best not overdo it, seen guys tune the nuts of a cylinder and end up with something which means changing crank bearings way too often for my liking!

I'd for sure give the boost ports linking the intake to transfers a go, really gives more punch in my experience.

NCNSR · 09-27-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefmuncher

Yeah I agree best not overdo it, seen guys tune the nuts of a cylinder and end up with something which means changing crank bearings way too often for my liking!

I'd for sure give the boost ports linking the intake to transfers a go, really gives more punch in my experience.

This is a Lipps cylinder

09-26-2009, 07:28 PM	#21 (permalink)
NCNSR Mod formerly known as Culdesac Join Date: May 2008 Location: Garden City, N.Y. Posts: 945 My Mood:	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison The Kitaco(One ring) piston is similar to the Autoboy(Two ring) and the Athena similar to the Malossi

09-26-2009, 07:37 PM	#22 (permalink)
minirazor PM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: So Cal LA Posts: 52	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison Yes You are correct but the the FOUR STROKE engines are evolving, two stroke engines haven't for a few years. Don't get me wrong I love 2T BIKES (I have a few) but I think 4T are taking over....

09-26-2009, 08:42 PM	#25 (permalink)
NCNSR Mod formerly known as Culdesac Join Date: May 2008 Location: Garden City, N.Y. Posts: 945 My Mood:	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison I offer to start a 2st VS 4st thread.....

09-26-2009, 09:27 PM	#28 (permalink)
minirazor PM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: So Cal LA Posts: 52	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison 2 Stroke technology has been at a stand still for many years. KTM, GasGas, TM, Husky and a few others are trying to improve the technology. Yamaha still mfg smokers, but pushes the 4 stroke. Suzuki is getting back into the 2 stroke, but not in the US. The problem is the all R&D had been put into the thumpers. The real question is, What are the Japanese MFG’s afraid of?… They are afraid that since they’ve dumped so much into the R&D of thumpers, that a smoker with yesterday’s technology will….. “smoke” their thumpers. (Pun intended). I'm not against 2T's or in favor of 4T's it's just what I hear, read and see all around.....Yeah lets not make it into a debate.. Sorry dude! Ti senti meglio adesso? Last edited by minirazor; 09-26-2009 at 10:58 PM.

09-26-2009, 10:15 PM	#30 (permalink)
rjpracing Aussie-Aussie-Aussie Oi Oi Oi! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: sunnyvale ca usa,five dock nsw ,australia Posts: 778 My Mood:	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison f.y.i. you guys know you can change port timing on these engines by lowering the height of the piston on the exaust port side which in turn raises the exaust port for more top end? cheaper than moding cylinders for testing so you get it right before you grind cylinders. since we are talking about 2strokes. its what we use to do to my pcr race kart engines back in the day. http://www.pcrargentina.com.ar/fotos/tag125.jpg

09-26-2009, 10:37 PM	#31 (permalink)
minirazor PM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: So Cal LA Posts: 52	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison None taken!! I'm not trying to jack this tread it's just a pic of a 22 year old ysr with some mods and a little bit of bling, I know my bike has not much bling as your bike but if you feel offended by my post I'll delete it....ok?....tutto bene su questo latto. arrivederci!! Last edited by minirazor; 09-26-2009 at 11:04 PM.

09-26-2009, 11:10 PM	#34 (permalink)
NCNSR Mod formerly known as Culdesac Join Date: May 2008 Location: Garden City, N.Y. Posts: 945 My Mood:	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison The Autoby kit is based on a used OEM steel Honda cylinder,The Malossi is a cast iron clean sheet design engineered and manufactured by Malossi.......So i guess Bespoke would be appropriate.As far as the bottom end they are widely regarded to be stout,Anything can be broken but it dosent seem to be a pressing issue as far as i can see.I am sure although it might not break outright it certainly will wear faster.......The clutch seems to be the weak link they practically throw them out and run CR80 clutches,Ditto the intakes(again CR80)along with RS125 Coils they seem to have a fetish for the OEM Honda parts catalog(Japanese mini bike racers) Last edited by NCNSR; 09-27-2009 at 05:58 AM.

09-26-2009, 11:28 PM	#35 (permalink)
minirazor PM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: So Cal LA Posts: 52	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison hey NCNSR what size carb are you gonna use with the new cyl ??

09-27-2009, 05:33 AM	#37 (permalink)
reefmuncher 1st Gear Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 122	Re: Malossi/Autoboy BBK Comparison Wow some serious debate going on!!!! I agree two strokes could be the game changer for sure, just for the moment the emission and fuel economy levels are not stringent enough to justify a shift away from the tried and tested fourstrokes. Looking at the pics it's hard to tell but the Autoboy looks neater with the angles on the transfers angled more centered to the piston crown, were the Malossi is still forward across the front of the boost port. The main thing is the port timing really and that's not possible to see with out a port map and measurements. The thing that is a shame is the Malossi design is probably quite old like the one they make for the 80cc engine which is late 80's early 90's. So it's cast iron and doesn't have snazzy auxilary or bridged exhaust ports like the more modern race kits they make. I guess if the MBX which was the NSR's precursor came out later the design could have been more up to date. One way to do the port timing is to make a shim for the base gasket and machine the top of the block to suit. Guys in Europe cut 4mm off!! I think it'll be cool to see which ends up being better, but I think in the end it'll just be down to how either is ported as both provide a suitable base platform to work with and in the end it's up to the tuner to make it work as they see fit!

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