Planet Minis

Danman2540 · 10-08-2009, 03:18 PM

I have a few questions. What is involved in swapping a chinese manual clutch engine (from a ST90 ZB replica) to semi auto clutch? I have an old honda motor for a donor. Also what is involved in changing a chinese electric start to kick start only? And lastly how do I tell a chinese 6v from a 12v? thanks

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 03:39 PM

pm firepower354....he can answer this for you...him or dirtbiker188
They helped me covert a manual 125 Lifan to a semi auto.

Danman2540 · 10-08-2009, 04:36 PM

I'll wait a bit and see if one of them stumble by here first. thanks

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 04:41 PM

And they will trust me.....

T Bolt USA · 10-08-2009, 04:52 PM

to go to a kick start only is easy , remove all the e-start components and the ignition completely and install a new 12v stator , flywheel and cover

to go semi you just need a semi clutch unit and a semi clutch cover if i remember correctly ,,,

z50 chopper · 10-08-2009, 04:53 PM

ya I think some of these guys do a search useing there name on here to see what threads have refered to them.

Danman2540 · 10-08-2009, 06:23 PM

cool thanks. Will a honda clutch go on a chinese motor? If anybody has any "for sure" info, let me know.

35mastr · 10-08-2009, 06:34 PM

Call firepower he knows all of this.

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danman2540

cool thanks. Will a honda clutch go on a chinese motor? If anybody has any "for sure" info, let me know.

Yes. I have a Lifan 125 with a Honda 70 semi auto clutch in it.
It also has a Honda 70 clutch cover and shift shaft. Firepower354 swapped it over for me in about 15 minutes.

dirtbkr188 · 10-08-2009, 07:00 PM

As everyone has stated, you will need all the semi-auto components from the clutch cover to the semi-auto clutch assembly, with everything in between. You are going to need the primary drive gear, and also the semi-auto shift shaft, to hold the actuator arm in place.
If you have an e-start/kick engine, the best thing to do is remove the starter and drive chain from the engine. You then need to make a blockoff plate where the starter motor was, to keep debris out. The e-start engines have a differently designed left side engine case, to accomodate the starter and drive chain. You can't just install a conventional flywheel/stator plate/ignition cover, there would be a gaping hole where the starter housing used to be. Should you still want a conventional setup, you'd need to access a conventional left side engine case.
If your e-start engine looks like THIS, when you remove the e-start stuff, it looks like THIS, and the hole between the engine case and a conventional ignition cover would be between the two red lines, as shown HERE

dirtbkr188 · 10-08-2009, 07:10 PM

I picked up a Sikk 120 almost 5 years from a PM member(thorwarrior915), and converted it over to semi-auto. HERE is a pic of it with the shift shaft and primary drive gear already in place. I put the rest of the semi-auto parts on it, and installed it in THIS BIKE, where it still is to this day, and works just fine.

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 07:21 PM

Tim do you find it hard kicking?
My Lifan 125 seems like it wants to bind up unless I kick it on the downside of the compression stroke. Is the clutch holding up ok or did you install stiffer springs?
I haven't had the best of luck after Terry assembled the auto in mine...but it is just carb issues that I need to address.

firepower354 · 10-08-2009, 07:26 PM

Parts is parts

dirtbkr188 · 10-08-2009, 07:27 PM

No, B-Dub, I just make it a habit to bring it around to TDC, much like a high compression setup, and follow through with a solid stroke. It's a parking lot/pavement pounder, I've abused it pretty hard with no ill effects to it at all. It's a 1dn-3up trans, I installed the SDG shift star kit when I first got the engine, and I do 2nd gear starts with the stock 37T rear sprocket and a 16T front.

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 07:27 PM

still never understood that...because some parts dont fit...

no matter how hard ya hittem

dirtbkr188 · 10-08-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwoodz

still never understood that...because some parts dont fit...

no matter how hard ya hittem

...Time to spring for a bigger hammer

Blackwoodz · 10-08-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtbkr188

No, B-Dub, I just make it a habit to bring it around to TDC, much like a high compression setup, and follow through with a solid stroke. It's a parking lot/pavement pounder, I've abused it pretty hard with no ill effects to it at all. It's a 1dn-3up trans, I installed the SDG shift star kit when I first got the engine, and I do 2nd gear starts with the stock 37T rear sprocket and a 16T front.

So you know what I am saying then....it is the auto-clutch that makes the bind feeling?

dirtbkr188 · 10-08-2009, 08:18 PM

Yep, the piston gets to the compression stroke and the crank stops while the clutch slips. Some say you can adjust it out with a clutch nut adjustment. Personally, I ease off on the kick downstroke, instead of trying to kick it harder, it has always seemed to work for me.

Danman2540 · 10-08-2009, 10:28 PM

I can use the clutch assembly and internals from an old honda engine but the clutch cover has to be from an late model z50r or crf50 cdi motor right? And nobody ever answered....how do I tell a 6 volt from a 12 volt engine?

z50 chopper · 10-08-2009, 10:47 PM

there is not much difference in appearance between 6v and 12v engines if any, I think the main differences is the 12v has a CDI box and the 6v has points on the fly wheel (if I remember the diagrams right) and the wireing harnesses are different (exactly how different I am not sure).
But the biggest indicator is the engine year as the 88 zb50 is 12v, '92 and later ct70s are 12 volt not sure what year z50's went 12volt though.

10-08-2009, 03:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
Danman2540 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 211 My Mood:	Converting Engines I have a few questions. What is involved in swapping a chinese manual clutch engine (from a ST90 ZB replica) to semi auto clutch? I have an old honda motor for a donor. Also what is involved in changing a chinese electric start to kick start only? And lastly how do I tell a chinese 6v from a 12v? thanks

10-08-2009, 03:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
Blackwoodz 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SC Michigan Posts: 3,627	Re: Converting Engines pm firepower354....he can answer this for you...him or dirtbiker188 They helped me covert a manual 125 Lifan to a semi auto.

10-08-2009, 04:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Danman2540 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 211 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines I'll wait a bit and see if one of them stumble by here first. thanks

10-08-2009, 04:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
Blackwoodz 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SC Michigan Posts: 3,627	Re: Converting Engines And they will trust me.....

10-08-2009, 04:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
T Bolt USA Advertiser Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,793 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines to go to a kick start only is easy , remove all the e-start components and the ignition completely and install a new 12v stator , flywheel and cover to go semi you just need a semi clutch unit and a semi clutch cover if i remember correctly ,,, __________________ T Bolt USA ALL top Pitbikes ,Engines and Parts for Pitbikes & Minis Website Contact THECRKID@TBOLTUSA.COM or Call 215-630-3554

10-08-2009, 04:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
z50 chopper 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 504 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines ya I think some of these guys do a search useing there name on here to see what threads have refered to them.

10-08-2009, 06:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Danman2540 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 211 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines cool thanks. Will a honda clutch go on a chinese motor? If anybody has any "for sure" info, let me know.

10-08-2009, 06:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
35mastr 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Newark,Ca. Posts: 566 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines Call firepower he knows all of this.

10-08-2009, 07:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,973	Re: Converting Engines As everyone has stated, you will need all the semi-auto components from the clutch cover to the semi-auto clutch assembly, with everything in between. You are going to need the primary drive gear, and also the semi-auto shift shaft, to hold the actuator arm in place. If you have an e-start/kick engine, the best thing to do is remove the starter and drive chain from the engine. You then need to make a blockoff plate where the starter motor was, to keep debris out. The e-start engines have a differently designed left side engine case, to accomodate the starter and drive chain. You can't just install a conventional flywheel/stator plate/ignition cover, there would be a gaping hole where the starter housing used to be. Should you still want a conventional setup, you'd need to access a conventional left side engine case. If your e-start engine looks like THIS, when you remove the e-start stuff, it looks like THIS, and the hole between the engine case and a conventional ignition cover would be between the two red lines, as shown HERE Last edited by dirtbkr188; 10-08-2009 at 07:03 PM.

10-08-2009, 07:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,973	Re: Converting Engines I picked up a Sikk 120 almost 5 years from a PM member(thorwarrior915), and converted it over to semi-auto. HERE is a pic of it with the shift shaft and primary drive gear already in place. I put the rest of the semi-auto parts on it, and installed it in THIS BIKE, where it still is to this day, and works just fine.

10-08-2009, 07:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
Blackwoodz 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SC Michigan Posts: 3,627	Re: Converting Engines Tim do you find it hard kicking? My Lifan 125 seems like it wants to bind up unless I kick it on the downside of the compression stroke. Is the clutch holding up ok or did you install stiffer springs? I haven't had the best of luck after Terry assembled the auto in mine...but it is just carb issues that I need to address.

10-08-2009, 07:26 PM	#13 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,005 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines Parts is parts __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

10-08-2009, 07:27 PM	#14 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,973	Re: Converting Engines No, B-Dub, I just make it a habit to bring it around to TDC, much like a high compression setup, and follow through with a solid stroke. It's a parking lot/pavement pounder, I've abused it pretty hard with no ill effects to it at all. It's a 1dn-3up trans, I installed the SDG shift star kit when I first got the engine, and I do 2nd gear starts with the stock 37T rear sprocket and a 16T front.

10-08-2009, 07:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Blackwoodz 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SC Michigan Posts: 3,627	Re: Converting Engines still never understood that...because some parts dont fit... no matter how hard ya hittem

10-08-2009, 08:18 PM	#18 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,973	Re: Converting Engines Yep, the piston gets to the compression stroke and the crank stops while the clutch slips. Some say you can adjust it out with a clutch nut adjustment. Personally, I ease off on the kick downstroke, instead of trying to kick it harder, it has always seemed to work for me.

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10-08-2009, 10:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
Danman2540 1st Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: St Louis MO Posts: 211 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines I can use the clutch assembly and internals from an old honda engine but the clutch cover has to be from an late model z50r or crf50 cdi motor right? And nobody ever answered....how do I tell a 6 volt from a 12 volt engine? Last edited by Danman2540; 10-08-2009 at 10:44 PM.

10-08-2009, 10:47 PM	#20 (permalink)
z50 chopper 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 504 My Mood:	Re: Converting Engines there is not much difference in appearance between 6v and 12v engines if any, I think the main differences is the 12v has a CDI box and the 6v has points on the fly wheel (if I remember the diagrams right) and the wireing harnesses are different (exactly how different I am not sure). But the biggest indicator is the engine year as the 88 zb50 is 12v, '92 and later ct70s are 12 volt not sure what year z50's went 12volt though. Last edited by z50 chopper; 10-08-2009 at 10:51 PM.