Planet Minis

mexicanyella · 11-09-2009, 12:08 AM

I was sitting on my CT70 out in the garage tonight, while waiting for my wife's horses to finish eating. I was just kind of zonin' out, making some engine noises, thinking about what it would be like to ride it one of these days, when--What's this!?! This seat seems crooked. I got off and flipped the seat up and noticed that the area around the seat hinge bolts seems indented in from the top of the frame spine. I figured that might just be how they're stamped, but the more I looked at it the more it looked asymmetrical. Like it's mushed in more on the right than the left.
I can't seem to take a photo that shows any of this; the flare from the flash just makes it look like a shiny CT with the seat flipped up.
The seat hinge seems centered with the welded seam on top of the spine, but there's a noticeable tilt to the right from that indented area, and I thiiiiiink I can see some deformation on the right side of the frame below the nose of the seat. The opening under the seat seems to have straight sides; the damage (unless I'm blind or tripping) seems confined to the area immediately around and below the seat hinge.

Or sooooo I thought.....

Then I crouched down behind the bike with the seat up, sighting down it and I noticed the shocks both lean the same way, down and to the left as they go down to the swingarm. Thus offsetting the rear wheel to the left of the bike's centerline. The tire seems centered in the swingarm, but while I somehow didn't notice the shock thing I had noticed the tire seeming to protrude from the left side of the fender. I figured it was due to it sitting on a flat, leaned over on its kickstand.

What could cause this kind of damage on a CT70? Dropping a grand piano on it? They can't go fast enough to hit anything that hard!

If it turns out the wheel/shock problem is a bent swingarm is it dangerous to ride something like that (with a straight swingarm) when it's damaged at the seat hinge area, or should I just shim the seat hinge so it's level and forget it?

Maybe what I got for $125 was really an engine and a set of CT wheels, which would still be okay with me. If the general consensus is that the frame is probably significantly weakened, I might have some CT parts for sale/trade soon; forks and engine rock guard and front fender and a few other things look pretty good...

Sheesh.

Edit: Thread now enhanced with added photos! Still hard to see through a camera lens, at least the deformation around the seat hinge. The back end issues are pretty easy to see. Note that despite the deformation around the seat hinge, which bulges the right side out slightly in comparison with the left, the sides of the opening under the seat are still straight.

PitRacerVince · 11-09-2009, 12:34 AM

yeah u bought some ones disposable toy.... it was used and abused......

kmcrab · 11-09-2009, 06:49 PM

That is common with CT's that have beed jumped...If you want to keep it, check with Bob at motorcityminitrails...He has developed a heavy duty shock mount and can fix the frame to last.

Z · 11-09-2009, 08:19 PM

Holy crab. Karen has entered the building. Welcome...

Ben ~ Someone played Evil Knievel with your bike in a past life.

kmcrab · 11-09-2009, 08:46 PM

lol!! Thanks Dan...This is a great site too. I'm looking around for custom ideas still.

mexicanyella · 11-09-2009, 09:00 PM

"Ben ~ Someone played Evil Knievel with your bike in a past life."

So is the thinking there that in landing it hard, the structure is supported at both ends by wheels/suspension, and bends down in the middle, evident by buckling along the top near the seat hinge? Or are you thinking more along the lines of the rear end crookedness, or both?

From starting out on an MX80 and riding a lot with two guys on CTs, I can say that jumping a CT is definitely not the way forward. An MX80 seems like a high-performance specialized dirt hotrod by comparison. Someone on this bike was desperate in its past life.

Thing was, the CTs always ran. My bike did not.

mexicanyella · 11-09-2009, 11:17 PM

Looking at it from the side and slightly to the rear, with the seat up and the bike on blocks so it sits upright and level, it looks more and more to me like it's been choppered. I think the buckling around the seat hinge is where it gave way. And I just noticed some small cracks where the two sides of the frame meet in the middle just above the upper motor mount, where if it still had an aircleaner on it they'd be hidden behind it.

Dirtbkr188 PM'ed me an interesting possible scenario earlier today on how the damage I'd noticed at that point might have happened. It involved a bad parking job, a Buick, a darkened garage, slow reaction times and a sturdy workbench with angle iron legs. I liked his story but looking at it now I think I see chopperism.

I'm less and less inclined to try and beat this thing into shape. Guess I have to decide

a) put up some of the good parts for sale/trade; or

b) try to find another CT frame and swap parts over.

I'll stew on that for a couple days.

kmcrab · 11-10-2009, 12:17 AM

I was going to buy two CT70's, one a 5-70 B/G, H and the other a Gold 1969 silver tag auto. I drove 136 miles, one way. When I got there, I saw a dent on the left side of the B/G. I climbed on the trailer and lifted the seat...There were two cracks on either side of the frame under the latch..the cracks were 4 and 5 inch verticle. You could see daylight through them! I then looked some more and the swing arm,shock mounts and wheels were bent. The chain guards were even in two pieces, split between the bolts...This damage was on both bikes. All of this came after I had talked to the guy for two weeks and asked every question imaginable...He told me they were in great shape and had been his daughters and then stored for 20 some years. What I finally got him to say was that him and a friend had used them for mini mx racing/jumping. These were big, grown men. Of course I didn't buy them and he was mad...as I drove off he yelled, "They can be welded" It made me sad that two very early bikes had been abused this way.

mexicanyella · 11-10-2009, 07:12 AM

That doesn't sound like a very fun road trip. The nerve and mindset of people trying to pull off a stunt like that...I don't get it. Selling my old CB was agonizing; I was probably tiresomely detailed and honest but I felt I had to be. I wanted the buyer to know what he was getting, and he hasn't called with questions or complaints...

In this case, with the CT, I'm pretty sure the guy I got it from pulled it out of a basement and never got around to looking at it closely or working on it before passing it on to me. But even if he passed it on to me because of the damage and didn't mention it, he's not someone I see often (he was our propane delivery driver, but we changed utility companies this year) and I have been after a four-speed motor and some CT wheels for awhile, so I think I can suck it up and deal with this problem.

CrawlerD · 11-10-2009, 09:41 AM

You still got a rippin deal! I do the same thing all the time. But we have to keep it in perspective here. You can get frame and swingers all day long and cheap. The other stuff you got with it is the good stuff that is hard to find! I think I have a way of getting a frame to you! Stay tuned!

kmcrab · 11-10-2009, 10:51 PM

For $125 you did well! I really do think that some folks really don't know that they have serious problems when they sell something...Others, not so much...The guy I was dealing with knew without a doubt about the structure issues...You could see it in his face when I saw it. He had assured me that the bikes only needed batteries,oil and seat covers...normal stuff. This guy and his friend were huge...probably the first jump did it. If I wouldn't have been so mad, I would have bought them as parts bikes, but I just would not do it...I went off on him instead. The trip was not a total waste though, I had made arrangements to meet him and also another guy to get an Emerald Green H at the same location an hour apart...The second guy shows up with the EG that I was thrilled with and it had the original title. That was my dream bike as a kid, I had a Red auto, but when that EG came out...I loved it. Now I have among others, two EG's a Topaz and the B/G which completes that set. I don't have to tell you, but they are so addicting!

Mexican...Are you close to St. Louis? I'm from Missouri too.

Dan and Bob have really sparked my interest in building a custom CT...It's unbelieveable what you can do to these. I have been selling some of my other bikes to fund the project and have a few more that I will be selling also.

street hooligan · 11-10-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z

Holy crab. Karen has entered the building. Welcome...

Ben ~ Someone played Evil Knievel with your bike in a past life.

god, f'n karens here.

kmcrab · 11-10-2009, 11:49 PM

What?? Is that bad?

mexicanyella · 11-11-2009, 07:14 AM

Karen: I'm about an hour west and a little north of St. Louis, near Troy. Where are you?

I liked your story about picking up the bikes; it's always interesting to me to get glimpses of what motivates people to own, collect, modify, acquire, sell etc. these machines, comparing that to somewhere like SE Asia where people would be motivated by economic necessity because they're reliable and cheap and you can tie 17 flapping turkeys onto one and transport them to market to sell. Hearing someone say that they lusted after a particular color and model as a kid for X reason is interesting to me. For me, it was an orange QA50K3, which I used to pester my mom to take me to the Honda dealer in New Orleans where we lived and let me sit on it, and take fistfuls of brochures home to drool on.

CrawlerD: I'm tuned in, man. Broadcast me some info on them CT parts.

HymieP · 11-11-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmcrab

What?? Is that bad?

Nope! Welcome to the board. If you want custom ideas, you've found the place.

kmcrab · 11-11-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexicanyella

Karen: I'm about an hour west and a little north of St. Louis, near Troy. Where are you?

I liked your story about picking up the bikes; it's always interesting to me to get glimpses of what motivates people to own, collect, modify, acquire, sell etc. these machines, comparing that to somewhere like SE Asia where people would be motivated by economic necessity because they're reliable and cheap and you can tie 17 flapping turkeys onto one and transport them to market to sell. Hearing someone say that they lusted after a particular color and model as a kid for X reason is interesting to me. For me, it was an orange QA50K3, which I used to pester my mom to take me to the Honda dealer in New Orleans where we lived and let me sit on it, and take fistfuls of brochures home to drool on.

CrawlerD: I'm tuned in, man. Broadcast me some info on them CT parts.

MexicanYella,
I'm in Overland Park, KS now, but I grew up in Lee's Summit,MO..just outside of KC.

lol!! I did the brochure thing too!...First with the Minitrails and then the Trail 70's...I never outgrew it!! I was so happy when I got my first one, It was a Sunday, I had just gotten home from church with my mom and then my dad called me to the garage and there it was...I still remember that moment like it was yesterday! I like hearing the stories of why people are still so into these bikes too. It makes me feel more normal to know there are so many others that feel like I do about them! LOL!

Thanks for the Welcome Jamie...There are some awesome bikes here and I am getting some good ideas...It would take building 5 bikes to incorporate everything that I like! In the gallery, there is one from I believe Stavros...I really like that bikes color, it's amazing. It kinda reminds me of a 50's seafoam green or something....I was looking at your custom the other day and the way it changes color is awesome! How many different colors are in that paint job?

I was wondering what "Street Hooligan" meant by his comment...It didn't sound too nice. I don't think I know who that is.

cdoublejj · 11-11-2009, 02:50 PM

street hooligan was being sarcastic and teasing

kmcrab · 11-11-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoublejj

street hooligan was being sarcastic and teasing

Thanks cdoublejj...I appreciate you letting me know that!

mexicanyella · 11-11-2009, 04:01 PM

Overland Park, huh? Spent a lot of Christmases in Prairie Village over the years. Sort of near your area, anyway. So what was your first Z, then? Hardtail? Softtail?

I just put together a Z50R from a couple of broken bikes for my 8-year-old son and got him started on it in September, for his birthday. He is riding it more and more, but did not completely blow a gasket about it the way I did when I got my first bike. I think he needed to get into it on his own, plus he's pretty into tanks and stuff that blows up and is olive drab or camo. But he's starting it himself now and taking off for the pasture on it. I guess he's more independent about it than I was. But I for sure still felt some of the ohboyohboyohboy feeling (at age 40) about the whole deal, seeing the parts come together and hearing it fire up and feeling like I recycled someone else's scrap into something that might still be running in 20 or 30 years. This CT70 thing...I am glad to have the thing as a parts bike and agree I did okay moneywise, but there is some ohboyohboyohboy deprivation going on since finding the damage, I guess. I'll be all right.

I hope to look just as ridiculous at retirement age riding around on my Z50 as I do now.

ducatilover · 11-11-2009, 10:02 PM

I see you finally "own" the CT. Welcome to the CT club.

11-09-2009, 12:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	My CT70 (I must be blind) I was sitting on my CT70 out in the garage tonight, while waiting for my wife's horses to finish eating. I was just kind of zonin' out, making some engine noises, thinking about what it would be like to ride it one of these days, when--What's this!?! This seat seems crooked. I got off and flipped the seat up and noticed that the area around the seat hinge bolts seems indented in from the top of the frame spine. I figured that might just be how they're stamped, but the more I looked at it the more it looked asymmetrical. Like it's mushed in more on the right than the left. I can't seem to take a photo that shows any of this; the flare from the flash just makes it look like a shiny CT with the seat flipped up. The seat hinge seems centered with the welded seam on top of the spine, but there's a noticeable tilt to the right from that indented area, and I thiiiiiink I can see some deformation on the right side of the frame below the nose of the seat. The opening under the seat seems to have straight sides; the damage (unless I'm blind or tripping) seems confined to the area immediately around and below the seat hinge. Or sooooo I thought..... Then I crouched down behind the bike with the seat up, sighting down it and I noticed the shocks both lean the same way, down and to the left as they go down to the swingarm. Thus offsetting the rear wheel to the left of the bike's centerline. The tire seems centered in the swingarm, but while I somehow didn't notice the shock thing I had noticed the tire seeming to protrude from the left side of the fender. I figured it was due to it sitting on a flat, leaned over on its kickstand. What could cause this kind of damage on a CT70? Dropping a grand piano on it? They can't go fast enough to hit anything that hard! If it turns out the wheel/shock problem is a bent swingarm is it dangerous to ride something like that (with a straight swingarm) when it's damaged at the seat hinge area, or should I just shim the seat hinge so it's level and forget it? Maybe what I got for $125 was really an engine and a set of CT wheels, which would still be okay with me. If the general consensus is that the frame is probably significantly weakened, I might have some CT parts for sale/trade soon; forks and engine rock guard and front fender and a few other things look pretty good... Sheesh. Edit: Thread now enhanced with added photos! Still hard to see through a camera lens, at least the deformation around the seat hinge. The back end issues are pretty easy to see. Note that despite the deformation around the seat hinge, which bulges the right side out slightly in comparison with the left, the sides of the opening under the seat are still straight. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mexicanyella; 11-09-2009 at 09:01 AM.

11-09-2009, 12:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
PitRacerVince 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 954 My Mood:	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) yeah u bought some ones disposable toy.... it was used and abused......

11-09-2009, 06:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
kmcrab PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) That is common with CT's that have beed jumped...If you want to keep it, check with Bob at motorcityminitrails...He has developed a heavy duty shock mount and can fix the frame to last.

11-09-2009, 08:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Z 5th Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: KANSAS Posts: 8,535	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) Holy crab. Karen has entered the building. Welcome... Ben ~ Someone played Evil Knievel with your bike in a past life.

11-09-2009, 08:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
kmcrab PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) lol!! Thanks Dan...This is a great site too. I'm looking around for custom ideas still.

11-09-2009, 09:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) "Ben ~ Someone played Evil Knievel with your bike in a past life." So is the thinking there that in landing it hard, the structure is supported at both ends by wheels/suspension, and bends down in the middle, evident by buckling along the top near the seat hinge? Or are you thinking more along the lines of the rear end crookedness, or both? From starting out on an MX80 and riding a lot with two guys on CTs, I can say that jumping a CT is definitely not the way forward. An MX80 seems like a high-performance specialized dirt hotrod by comparison. Someone on this bike was desperate in its past life. Thing was, the CTs always ran. My bike did not.

11-09-2009, 11:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) Looking at it from the side and slightly to the rear, with the seat up and the bike on blocks so it sits upright and level, it looks more and more to me like it's been choppered. I think the buckling around the seat hinge is where it gave way. And I just noticed some small cracks where the two sides of the frame meet in the middle just above the upper motor mount, where if it still had an aircleaner on it they'd be hidden behind it. Dirtbkr188 PM'ed me an interesting possible scenario earlier today on how the damage I'd noticed at that point might have happened. It involved a bad parking job, a Buick, a darkened garage, slow reaction times and a sturdy workbench with angle iron legs. I liked his story but looking at it now I think I see chopperism. I'm less and less inclined to try and beat this thing into shape. Guess I have to decide a) put up some of the good parts for sale/trade; or b) try to find another CT frame and swap parts over. I'll stew on that for a couple days.

11-10-2009, 12:17 AM	#8 (permalink)
kmcrab PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) I was going to buy two CT70's, one a 5-70 B/G, H and the other a Gold 1969 silver tag auto. I drove 136 miles, one way. When I got there, I saw a dent on the left side of the B/G. I climbed on the trailer and lifted the seat...There were two cracks on either side of the frame under the latch..the cracks were 4 and 5 inch verticle. You could see daylight through them! I then looked some more and the swing arm,shock mounts and wheels were bent. The chain guards were even in two pieces, split between the bolts...This damage was on both bikes. All of this came after I had talked to the guy for two weeks and asked every question imaginable...He told me they were in great shape and had been his daughters and then stored for 20 some years. What I finally got him to say was that him and a friend had used them for mini mx racing/jumping. These were big, grown men. Of course I didn't buy them and he was mad...as I drove off he yelled, "They can be welded" It made me sad that two very early bikes had been abused this way.

11-10-2009, 07:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) That doesn't sound like a very fun road trip. The nerve and mindset of people trying to pull off a stunt like that...I don't get it. Selling my old CB was agonizing; I was probably tiresomely detailed and honest but I felt I had to be. I wanted the buyer to know what he was getting, and he hasn't called with questions or complaints... In this case, with the CT, I'm pretty sure the guy I got it from pulled it out of a basement and never got around to looking at it closely or working on it before passing it on to me. But even if he passed it on to me because of the damage and didn't mention it, he's not someone I see often (he was our propane delivery driver, but we changed utility companies this year) and I have been after a four-speed motor and some CT wheels for awhile, so I think I can suck it up and deal with this problem.

11-10-2009, 09:41 AM	#10 (permalink)
CrawlerD 1st Gear Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 645	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) You still got a rippin deal! I do the same thing all the time. But we have to keep it in perspective here. You can get frame and swingers all day long and cheap. The other stuff you got with it is the good stuff that is hard to find! I think I have a way of getting a frame to you! Stay tuned!

11-10-2009, 10:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
kmcrab PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) For $125 you did well! I really do think that some folks really don't know that they have serious problems when they sell something...Others, not so much...The guy I was dealing with knew without a doubt about the structure issues...You could see it in his face when I saw it. He had assured me that the bikes only needed batteries,oil and seat covers...normal stuff. This guy and his friend were huge...probably the first jump did it. If I wouldn't have been so mad, I would have bought them as parts bikes, but I just would not do it...I went off on him instead. The trip was not a total waste though, I had made arrangements to meet him and also another guy to get an Emerald Green H at the same location an hour apart...The second guy shows up with the EG that I was thrilled with and it had the original title. That was my dream bike as a kid, I had a Red auto, but when that EG came out...I loved it. Now I have among others, two EG's a Topaz and the B/G which completes that set. I don't have to tell you, but they are so addicting! Mexican...Are you close to St. Louis? I'm from Missouri too. Dan and Bob have really sparked my interest in building a custom CT...It's unbelieveable what you can do to these. I have been selling some of my other bikes to fund the project and have a few more that I will be selling also.

11-10-2009, 11:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
kmcrab PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 8	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) What?? Is that bad?

11-11-2009, 07:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) Karen: I'm about an hour west and a little north of St. Louis, near Troy. Where are you? I liked your story about picking up the bikes; it's always interesting to me to get glimpses of what motivates people to own, collect, modify, acquire, sell etc. these machines, comparing that to somewhere like SE Asia where people would be motivated by economic necessity because they're reliable and cheap and you can tie 17 flapping turkeys onto one and transport them to market to sell. Hearing someone say that they lusted after a particular color and model as a kid for X reason is interesting to me. For me, it was an orange QA50K3, which I used to pester my mom to take me to the Honda dealer in New Orleans where we lived and let me sit on it, and take fistfuls of brochures home to drool on. CrawlerD: I'm tuned in, man. Broadcast me some info on them CT parts.

11-11-2009, 02:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
cdoublejj 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St.Joe MO Posts: 1,367 My Mood:	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) street hooligan was being sarcastic and teasing

11-11-2009, 04:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 972	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) Overland Park, huh? Spent a lot of Christmases in Prairie Village over the years. Sort of near your area, anyway. So what was your first Z, then? Hardtail? Softtail? I just put together a Z50R from a couple of broken bikes for my 8-year-old son and got him started on it in September, for his birthday. He is riding it more and more, but did not completely blow a gasket about it the way I did when I got my first bike. I think he needed to get into it on his own, plus he's pretty into tanks and stuff that blows up and is olive drab or camo. But he's starting it himself now and taking off for the pasture on it. I guess he's more independent about it than I was. But I for sure still felt some of the ohboyohboyohboy feeling (at age 40) about the whole deal, seeing the parts come together and hearing it fire up and feeling like I recycled someone else's scrap into something that might still be running in 20 or 30 years. This CT70 thing...I am glad to have the thing as a parts bike and agree I did okay moneywise, but there is some ohboyohboyohboy deprivation going on since finding the damage, I guess. I'll be all right. I hope to look just as ridiculous at retirement age riding around on my Z50 as I do now. Last edited by mexicanyella; 11-11-2009 at 04:04 PM.

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11-11-2009, 10:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
ducatilover 2nd Gear Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 618 My Mood:	Re: My CT70 (I must be blind) I see you finally "own" the CT. Welcome to the CT club.