Planet Minis

RonKMiller

After looking at Brembo disc brakes for my hardtail, it appears that they are just a bit (ahem - cough cough) expensive. While I'm sure they are worth every nickle I'll just have to pass.

I'm focusing on the front brake only since that's where 90% of the stopping power comes from.

I've looked around for pads to replace the 39 year old Honda OEM pads which I had a chance to try out before starting my rebuild - they were pretty bad. Then again anything that old is probably going to be toast - even though there was plenty of material left. I plan on checking the drums to make sure they are perfectly round as well as scuffing them with some 400 grade garnet paper to provide a "new" surface for the new pads prior to installation.

It looks like three choices for pads:

1) Honda OEM (and sometimes OEM are the BEST...)
2) Vesrah
3) Ferodo

I think I've pretty much settled on the Ferodo 454-2009 pads and found them for $12.06 per wheel - which seems to be an excellent price.

Since I intend to increase the mechanical advantage by using a longer arm on the front brake hub along with a longer arm on the handlebar my next issue is putting too much pressure on the internals of the brake itself and creating a failure point. Not good.

My questions:

What brake lever arm at the wheel will bolt on to give me more of a mechanical advantage - The arm off a modern CT70 appears to be longer?

Has anyone replaced any hardware at the shoes/hubs with a grade 8 type fasteners or stronger springs?

Which pad would you go with for max stopping power? I'm not really concerned with longevity or brake dust issues, etc.

Thanks again in advance - this forum is a great resource!

Z

Run the ferodo pads. If you feel you don't have enough braking after switching the pads, then move to the longer lever and/or brakearm in stages. You aren't going to break internals with a longer arm or lever and your biggest problem is heat from the friction. The more they heat up, they more they fade and fade faster then discs.

Drums, if in good condition, can be fine up to 60mph speeds, just give yourself more room to stop then you would with discs.

Jeff from Minigunz takes his drum braked monkeybike up to speeds in excess of 70mph and never complains, so if you can ride and don't get into a panic stop, the drums will be fine.

RonKMiller

Kewl - that's good advice about doing it in stages instead of all at once. I remember when I was modding my RX7 that was always my rule not only to save cash but by getting a better "feel" for each new component.

Ferodos it is.

Thanks again Z!

TripleKingCrew

Geez, Z knows everything!

Hes my hero

RonKMiller

One word: GURU. We need a "bow down" emoticon...

70sdiscotrike

I will also be doing some brake work for my Z, and does anyone offer a stiffer spring for the shoes? I could have sworn I saw some on the net, but I am not sure.

Thanks guys - DAVE

RonKMiller

The more I think about it I really don't think they are needed (or available from what I've seen) New ones always come with new shoes.

If you simply clean everything up with some brake cleaner (non chlorinated please) then put a tiny dab of grease on the cam it should work just great. I DID find a slightly stiffer return spring for the cable end at my local hardware store for 83 cents that had the same bore and length. My old spring had some corrosion on it and no doubt over time lost a bit of compression. I never have figured out a good way to clean old springs.

I plan on dribbling some Teflon lube into the old cable/housing as well to make it slide much easier. Resist the urge to use WD40 or regular oil since it attracts dirt like a magnet and will gum up in short order. I simply hang it up vertically, put a few drops on then walk away - repeat a half dozen times - pretty amazing the gunk that finally comes out the other end!

Think of it as a cable "enema".

davez

or you can get a cable luber for 7 bucks and do it in 2 seconds

shw911

Hey Z, would getting something like this help any? This is from G Craft from Monkey Bike UK website



or maybe drilling some holes in the backing plate for some cooling?

RonKMiller

That's very novel and I'll bet it actually does help to cool the pads off a bit - but 88.50 GBP = 178.877 USD... plus shipping. Ouch.

Z

Please quit quoting MBUK prices. I import parts direct from Japan for a number of people who ask so people don't get bent over the barrel. Very few people here in the USA actually purchase from MBUK and if they do, they grossly overpay for parts.

Additionally, G-craft makes the nicest Monkeybike billet parts in the world on demand. Their parts are not going to be cheap, but if someone wants the best of the best, G-craft is the ticket.

A couple of people have that g-craft piece, but I wouldn't want general road grime in my drums. It would help cool the brakes, but I don't see the need to go to those extremes. Drum brakes are drum brakes and no matter how much you polish the proverbial turd, they are still drum brakes.

BUZZ 50s BROTHERHOOD

MBUK are very expensive even for people who live in the u.k. aswell....

RonKMiller

Z:

I have appreciated your guidance and advice more than you know, as it has saved me a lot of time and aggravation.

I didn't mean to scare off any of your potential customers for what I consider to be absurdly expensive parts that have very limited potential to improve performance. This is my OPINION.

No doubt by posting prices - so that other members may benefit - may tend to make them look ridiculously expensive, but when I see a price for a (brand name deleted) exhaust pipe for $797.00 for a 50cc motor I also look for a large tube of water soluble lubricant and kneepads included for free.

I happen to come from the "ghetto school" of modification, and will frequently find components for my projects that are significantly less expensive then those available at full retail. I also will frequently modify common hardware parts or components from other applications that are not "motorcycle specific" I find that these components often work as good or better than overblown, over hyped bling that is thrust on unsuspecting buyers by clever marketing. While a few of them actually afford higher performance, they are generally suitable only for racing applications. If they truly want to go fast, most riders would be better off spending their funds attending racing schools like Keith Code's Superbike School. I have.

As an FAA Certified Commercial Pilot with special expertise in airframe and power plants (not too mention the fact that I have built several airplanes from scratch) I thought my observations might be useful to other forum members that like to modify and create instead of "bolt on". There is certainly very little personal satisfaction other than admiring your newly purchased "jewels" for about 30 minutes or so, or boasting to your comrades about how much money you spent on the latest and greatest. "I bought it" just plain doesn't compare to "I built it".

You are correct about calling a turd a turd, just don't try to convince me that you can turn a sow's ear (or turd) into a silk purse by throwing money at it.

I thought the purpose of this forum was to share ideas, opinions and experiences...

RonKMiller

I have found that using one on cables approaching 40 years old just doesn't work.

There is a lot of corrosion, dirt and caked dry lubricant in there that needs time to soak and drain out. While I love quick solutions I think in this case that 7 bucks would be better spent on a can of Teflon lube like Tri-flo - which is about what they get for a tiny can.