Planet Minis

makotosun · 11-23-2008, 09:03 PM

Ok - I am now attempting to get the motor to have some spark on the little yellow mini project I am doing for my son. If you have read that post, you know I am attempting to put a chinese electric start 50cc in it, and make all the electrics work (lights, starter, etc.)

The motor I got is supposedly a Lifan, but there are no markings as such on it. It is brand new, and came with CDI and Rectifier. The wiring as it was sent to me is shown on the diagram below:

Everything was pre-wired, and according to all of the reading I have done, the rectifier seems correct. It is a 5 wire CDI, and came pre-wired with the correct plug for that unit.

The interesting thing about this motor is it has two bunches of wire coming from the motor.

The first, has 5 wires, and terminates with the CDI plug. It exits the motor almost above the counter sprocket.

The second, also has five wires, and seems to be like the wiring diagrams I usually see. It was prewired to the Rectifier (colors seem to match up with what most diagrams say.

The unused wires are the Red from the Rectifier (which I think goes to the battery) the Green from both the Rectifer and one from the harness (which appear to go to ground?), A black/red wire with a bullet connector on it, and a Blue/white wire with a bullet connector. The two green wires were not connected together, but I did that for my tests.

The starter motor works perfectly, which is nice, as it makes testing easy. I set it up with a carb shorted to the head to determine if I had spark or not. I have tried both the coil that came with the bike, as well as a second coil I had - both are 12 volt coils and both are new. The only two wires that seem to be at issue are the blue/white and the black/red. I assumed that one went to the coil and the other to the kill switch, (I also tried the opposite of that) but nothing gives me spark.

I do have the bike hooked up with a battery, so I can use the start motor, and all of the appropriate wires hooked up so if a battery is needed for spark on this bike, I have that.

I have downloaded every wiring diagram I can find (Hooper, and about 7 others) to no avail. None show the setup I have with the CDI hanging on a separate wire harness.

If anyone here has any ideas on this, suggestions, or otherwise, it would be appreciated. All I need is spark to get this project moving along and off the bike stand.

Thank you in advance.

FastMC · 11-23-2008, 11:18 PM

Sounds to me like you have a motor with a gear position switch and his diagram shows the gear position wires going to the CDI which would be wrong. The blk/red wire should be your exciter coil wire and the blue/wht the pulser coil wire. Both needed to make spark, and both should be going to the CDI box.

FastMC · 11-23-2008, 11:56 PM

Wire the CDI like this only substitue your Blue/wht wire where he shows a blue/yel. Where he shows the blk/yel, that goes to the + side of your ignition coil. The blk/wht will go to a kill switch.

makotosun · 11-24-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastMC

Sounds to me like you have a motor with a gear position switch and his diagram shows the gear position wires going to the CDI which would be wrong. The blk/red wire should be your exiter coil wire and the blue/wht the pulser coil wire. Both needed to make spark, and both should be going to the CDI box.

That's actually the diagram I did up showing what I got. I did not get any wiring diagram with the motor which apparently is not uncommon.

What is odd to me is the wires going to the CDI are all a bit smaller guage, and are in a separate harness? See the pic. Do you know which wires should be the gear position wires?

The above shows the two separate harnesses and how they connect. A goes to the Reg/Rect while B goes to the CDI.

The REG/RECT harness comes out of the Stator area and is marked as A in all of the pics. The CDI harness comes out of the area where I believe the neutral light sensor would be hiding, but 5 wires come out of there in that harness and go to the CDI which is marked as C.

Remember this is an electric start motor, so I am guessing that makes some of the difference, but I have a schematic from the Hooper site that shows a starter, and a 5 wire CDI, but all the wires seem to come out of the motor in one harness. That is what I am confused about.

I do appreciate the comment, and maybe the pics will help you help me! Thanks again.

makotosun · 11-24-2008, 12:04 AM

OK - you were posting at the same time I was, and I understand what your're saying, but does the motor you're using for a reference have two different harnesses coming out of the motor? There are actually 10 separate wires coming out of my motor, which I truly do not understand.

FastMC · 11-24-2008, 12:09 AM

That harness coming from above the sprocket is all for the gear position switch and is not needed. It's just a coincidence it has the same plug as your CDI box.

FastMC · 11-24-2008, 12:16 AM

[quote=makotosun;1078288]That's actually the diagram I did up showing what I got. I did not get any wiring diagram with the motor which apparently is not uncommon.quote]

Haha. I guess I misunderstood. I thought that diagram was supplied to you with the motor.

makotosun · 11-24-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastMC

That harness coming from above the sprocket is all for the gear position switch and is not needed. It's just a coincidence it has the same plug as your CDI box.

Doh! Now I really feel like a moron.

Given that info, I would assume I could use one of those wires to indicate that the bike is in neutral for my son? Any idea which color would likely be neutral?

Thanks so much for the insight into my setup. I think the wiring harness will be a piece of cake now! I may even have some of those plugs I think in my box of wiring tricks. Thanks again!

FastMC · 11-24-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makotosun

Given that info, I would assume I could use one of those wires to indicate that the bike is in neutral for my son? Any idea which color would likely be neutral?

Thanks so much for the insight into my setup. I think the wiring harness will be a piece of cake now! I may even have some of those plugs I think in my box of wiring tricks. Thanks again!

The light green with the red tracer can go to a nuetral light and act as a ground to complete the circuit. The other wire going to the light has constant power.

makotosun · 11-24-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastMC

The light green with the red tracer can go to a nuetral light and act as a ground to complete the circuit. The other wire going to the light has constant power.

Fantastic! Now this build is going to get back on track!

FastMC · 11-24-2008, 12:40 AM

Be sure and post pics once he's riding it.

makotosun · 11-24-2008, 01:45 AM

Well, at least some basic success! I went out and connected up the wires per the schematic you posted, and turned it over and have good, hot, blue spark!

Hopefully, tomorrow, I can build an appropriate, clean wiring harness, including the lights, neutral light, brake light, etc. I already fabbed a huge battery box, so now it will just be hooking it all up and making it look nice!

I am not real happy with the light switch I have (old one off another bike) but that can be modified later. All is good with the world now! I actually feel pretty comfortable with the wiring, but got stuck on this step - comes from lack of experience with these motors. Should come in handy for when I install the 125 into my Panda

Thanks Jim

11-23-2008, 09:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
makotosun 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington (southwest) Posts: 510 My Mood:	Need some electrical input from the gurus Ok - I am now attempting to get the motor to have some spark on the little yellow mini project I am doing for my son. If you have read that post, you know I am attempting to put a chinese electric start 50cc in it, and make all the electrics work (lights, starter, etc.) The motor I got is supposedly a Lifan, but there are no markings as such on it. It is brand new, and came with CDI and Rectifier. The wiring as it was sent to me is shown on the diagram below: Everything was pre-wired, and according to all of the reading I have done, the rectifier seems correct. It is a 5 wire CDI, and came pre-wired with the correct plug for that unit. The interesting thing about this motor is it has two bunches of wire coming from the motor. The first, has 5 wires, and terminates with the CDI plug. It exits the motor almost above the counter sprocket. The second, also has five wires, and seems to be like the wiring diagrams I usually see. It was prewired to the Rectifier (colors seem to match up with what most diagrams say. The unused wires are the Red from the Rectifier (which I think goes to the battery) the Green from both the Rectifer and one from the harness (which appear to go to ground?), A black/red wire with a bullet connector on it, and a Blue/white wire with a bullet connector. The two green wires were not connected together, but I did that for my tests. The starter motor works perfectly, which is nice, as it makes testing easy. I set it up with a carb shorted to the head to determine if I had spark or not. I have tried both the coil that came with the bike, as well as a second coil I had - both are 12 volt coils and both are new. The only two wires that seem to be at issue are the blue/white and the black/red. I assumed that one went to the coil and the other to the kill switch, (I also tried the opposite of that) but nothing gives me spark. I do have the bike hooked up with a battery, so I can use the start motor, and all of the appropriate wires hooked up so if a battery is needed for spark on this bike, I have that. I have downloaded every wiring diagram I can find (Hooper, and about 7 others) to no avail. None show the setup I have with the CDI hanging on a separate wire harness. If anyone here has any ideas on this, suggestions, or otherwise, it would be appreciated. All I need is spark to get this project moving along and off the bike stand. Thank you in advance. Last edited by makotosun; 11-23-2008 at 09:10 PM.

11-23-2008, 11:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
FastMC Sporting the Merkin Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: boston area Posts: 5,072 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus Sounds to me like you have a motor with a gear position switch and his diagram shows the gear position wires going to the CDI which would be wrong. The blk/red wire should be your exciter coil wire and the blue/wht the pulser coil wire. Both needed to make spark, and both should be going to the CDI box. Last edited by FastMC; 11-23-2008 at 11:39 PM.

11-23-2008, 11:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
FastMC Sporting the Merkin Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: boston area Posts: 5,072 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus Wire the CDI like this only substitue your Blue/wht wire where he shows a blue/yel. Where he shows the blk/yel, that goes to the + side of your ignition coil. The blk/wht will go to a kill switch.

11-24-2008, 12:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
makotosun 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington (southwest) Posts: 510 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus OK - you were posting at the same time I was, and I understand what your're saying, but does the motor you're using for a reference have two different harnesses coming out of the motor? There are actually 10 separate wires coming out of my motor, which I truly do not understand.

11-24-2008, 12:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
FastMC Sporting the Merkin Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: boston area Posts: 5,072 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus That harness coming from above the sprocket is all for the gear position switch and is not needed. It's just a coincidence it has the same plug as your CDI box.

11-24-2008, 12:16 AM	#7 (permalink)
FastMC Sporting the Merkin Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: boston area Posts: 5,072 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus [quote=makotosun;1078288]That's actually the diagram I did up showing what I got. I did not get any wiring diagram with the motor which apparently is not uncommon.quote] Haha. I guess I misunderstood. I thought that diagram was supplied to you with the motor.

11-24-2008, 12:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
FastMC Sporting the Merkin Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: boston area Posts: 5,072 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus Be sure and post pics once he's riding it.

11-24-2008, 01:45 AM	#12 (permalink)
makotosun 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington (southwest) Posts: 510 My Mood:	Re: Need some electrical input from the gurus Well, at least some basic success! I went out and connected up the wires per the schematic you posted, and turned it over and have good, hot, blue spark! Hopefully, tomorrow, I can build an appropriate, clean wiring harness, including the lights, neutral light, brake light, etc. I already fabbed a huge battery box, so now it will just be hooking it all up and making it look nice! I am not real happy with the light switch I have (old one off another bike) but that can be modified later. All is good with the world now! I actually feel pretty comfortable with the wiring, but got stuck on this step - comes from lack of experience with these motors. Should come in handy for when I install the 125 into my Panda Thanks Jim

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