Planet Minis

yz80rider586 · 01-25-2006, 04:39 PM

i was looking around on ebay and i seen an aluminum oil catch wat does it do and does it really make the engine cool down its looks cool thohttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...QQcmdZViewItem

SprNtrl · 01-25-2006, 04:48 PM

It relieves pressure from the engine head, saving seals and gaskets, and the can is used to catch any oil that blows out of the tappet cover, and not all over the bike/riding surface.

reynolds_brad · 01-25-2006, 04:48 PM

that is the biggest piece of junk catch i have ever seen. If you are going to get a catch make sure to get one that drains back into the oil fill.

Catchs are used with tapit breathers to vent the head with out spweing oil all over the bike. When running on the street or track spweing oil is a no no.

that catch doesnt really do much at all over just runing a hose.

mikep · 01-25-2006, 06:39 PM

I'm just a dumb mechanic, but it seems to me that you should only need one of these if your rings are worn. Is there something I'm missing?

yz80rider586 · 01-25-2006, 06:40 PM

its probably stupit and a wast of money

SprNtrl · 01-25-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikep

I'm just a dumb mechanic, but it seems to me that you should only need one of these if your rings are worn. Is there something I'm missing?

You don't need a head breather if your rings are worn. One may use a head breather to relieve pressure from the head enabling it to rev quicker, and also gives a little more life to seals and gaskets. The link that points to the Ebay catch can is an half-assed attempt. Like Reynolds_Brad said, that a catch can should really drain the oil that comes up back into the case. A Real catch can setup should look something like this;

For more examples check out: http://monkeybike.co.uk/acatalog/Oil...Breathers.html

Z50King · 01-25-2006, 07:26 PM

I thought you meant overflow catch!!! I was like, "Why would you pay for an overflow catch can???"

mikep · 01-25-2006, 09:54 PM

SprNtrl, can you please explain to me how pressure builds up in the head if the engine isn't worn out. I seem to be missing something.
cheers

Jbrownkyr1 · 01-25-2006, 10:03 PM

If you look at like 99% of the bigger bikes out there, they all have vented valve covers. Also there is oil under the valve cover regardless of the condition of the rings and therefore if you are venting your valve cover you will have some oil loss regardless.

mikep · 01-25-2006, 10:12 PM

my z50 engine has a vent on the crankcase which is connected to the head, so I can't really see why it would need any more venting. Once again, I'm prepared to be wrong , I just need to know why.

Jbrownkyr1 · 01-25-2006, 10:19 PM

As far as I know the crankcase and valve cover are usually vented..sometimes together..and I think they are tied into the airbox on road bikes. I know my CRF250 has a drain line that is plugged up and you dump it at your leisure but it's not usually very much oil loss.

84z50r · 01-25-2006, 10:21 PM

MikeP i totaly agree with you,there should be no pressure in a head look at a real cars head you take the value covers off and there is no pressuer just some oil thats made its way too there too keep the rockers and stuff lubed up,

Z · 01-25-2006, 10:32 PM

A couple of you are failing to see the big picture here. The 50cc Honda OHC engine was designed for 2.5 Horsepower. However, when you bore and stroke a motor, add a 300% oil pump, horsepower can be as much 7X that amount with a ton of pressure and heat inside the cases. The cases can't relieve all the pressure from the little tiny vent hose on the back of the motor and builds up a good amount of pressure in the head. A vent hose off the tappet helps relieve some of this pressure, but in some cases with the high-flow oil pumps and heavy weight racing oil, the oil will pump through the breather tube. The catch tank is added to accumulate the liquid and vapor and return it back to the crankcase.

Is a breather needed for the head? It helps the longevity of the valve seals but your motor won't blow up without one. However, when done correctly, they add some nice bling to the bike.

I run 'em on both of my bikes and on the Z50 it helps take up some of the dead space for the low pipe as well. Here's my beater Z50J:

kuroi · 01-25-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84z50r

MikeP i totaly agree with you,there should be no pressure in a head look at a real cars head you take the value covers off and there is no pressuer just some oil thats made its way too there too keep the rockers and stuff lubed up,

Bzzzzttt!!! wrong, start your car take the oil fill cap off and stick you face by the hole. When your face and engine are covered in oil dropplets that have been spit out of the head by the pressure built up in the motor call me back....

mikep · 01-25-2006, 11:46 PM

kuroi,
Try driving your car without your face over the oil cap hole and you wont need a catch can

kuroi · 01-26-2006, 12:24 AM

It was meant as an example, the example being that engines DO build up internal pressure, that's why cars have a PCV system to vent that pressure. I never said drive it like that anyway smarty....

mikep · 01-26-2006, 03:52 AM

sorry my reply seemed a bit smart, but "Bzzzzttt!!! wrong" isn't a very nice way to start one either.
I'm quite aware of PCV valves, but I can't recall many cars that I've worked on having breathers in the crankcase/block(like a fifty has).
I also seem to remember at tech college in first year being taught that if pressure does blow out the oil filler hole the rings are probably worn.
Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree.
I've been running my z with an 88 kit at high revs to work and back most days for about 18 months. I think if there was a pressure broblem oil would have leaked out some of the rubber seals by now.

racerx351 · 01-26-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by z88R

A couple of you are failing to see the big picture here. The 50cc Honda OHC engine was designed for 2.5 Horsepower. However, when you bore and stroke a motor, add a 300% oil pump, horsepower can be as much 7X that amount with a ton of pressure and heat inside the cases. The cases can't relieve all the pressure from the little tiny vent hose on the back of the motor and builds up a good amount of pressure in the head. A vent hose off the tappet helps relieve some of this pressure, but in some cases with the high-flow oil pumps and heavy weight racing oil, the oil will pump through the breather tube. The catch tank is added to accumulate the liquid and vapor and return it back to the crankcase.

Is a breather needed for the head? It helps the longevity of the valve seals but your motor won't blow up without one. However, when done correctly, they add some nice bling to the bike.

I run 'em on both of my bikes and on the Z50 it helps take up some of the dead space for the low pipe as well. Here's my beater Z50J:

z88r,
i just had to let you know awesome bike !!!

reynolds_brad · 01-26-2006, 10:18 AM

Just a FYI guys there are cheap ones to be had as well.

I got my 29.99 Thai Yoshimura (FAKE!) catch off ebay. I took the bet on the cheap part and lost, but hell it works for now and looks OK. I plan to Fab my own anyways once the new Garage is setup.

Brent878 · 01-26-2006, 10:39 AM

the stock engine already has a breather and its on the bottom end, but the pressure at the bottom end and the topend are the same. Its in the same cavity. The reason for putting an additional breather is if the stock one can't handle the pressure coming out and you can blow seals. The pressure comes from the down stroke of the piston and doesn't matter on if the rings are worn or not its going to create pressure in the cases when the piston is comeing down. Now when you are putting out double the displacement than the stock piston 50 vs 108 or so then you are going to get double the pressure and the stock breather may or maynot be enough and the pressure has to come out other ways. If you take your breather hose off and just kick your bike a couple of times you can feel the air coming out so they are their for a reason. The catch can just lets the oil go back into the engine or can instead of on the ground if oil is blown through the breather tubes.

01-25-2006, 04:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
yz80rider586 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 404	oil catch?????/ i was looking around on ebay and i seen an aluminum oil catch wat does it do and does it really make the engine cool down its looks cool thohttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA...QQcmdZViewItem

01-25-2006, 04:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
SprNtrl 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,183 My Mood:	It relieves pressure from the engine head, saving seals and gaskets, and the can is used to catch any oil that blows out of the tappet cover, and not all over the bike/riding surface.

01-25-2006, 04:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
reynolds_brad Advertiser Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 2,719	that is the biggest piece of junk catch i have ever seen. If you are going to get a catch make sure to get one that drains back into the oil fill. Catchs are used with tapit breathers to vent the head with out spweing oil all over the bike. When running on the street or track spweing oil is a no no. that catch doesnt really do much at all over just runing a hose.

01-25-2006, 06:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
mikep PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	I'm just a dumb mechanic, but it seems to me that you should only need one of these if your rings are worn. Is there something I'm missing?

01-25-2006, 06:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
yz80rider586 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 404	its probably stupit and a wast of money

01-25-2006, 07:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
Z50King 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upland, Ca, CPP Posts: 9,758 My Mood:	I thought you meant overflow catch!!! I was like, "Why would you pay for an overflow catch can???"

01-25-2006, 09:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
mikep PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	SprNtrl, can you please explain to me how pressure builds up in the head if the engine isn't worn out. I seem to be missing something. cheers

01-25-2006, 10:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jbrownkyr1 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 372	If you look at like 99% of the bigger bikes out there, they all have vented valve covers. Also there is oil under the valve cover regardless of the condition of the rings and therefore if you are venting your valve cover you will have some oil loss regardless.

01-25-2006, 10:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
mikep PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	my z50 engine has a vent on the crankcase which is connected to the head, so I can't really see why it would need any more venting. Once again, I'm prepared to be wrong , I just need to know why.

01-25-2006, 10:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
Jbrownkyr1 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 372	As far as I know the crankcase and valve cover are usually vented..sometimes together..and I think they are tied into the airbox on road bikes. I know my CRF250 has a drain line that is plugged up and you dump it at your leisure but it's not usually very much oil loss.

01-25-2006, 10:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
84z50r PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 72	MikeP i totaly agree with you,there should be no pressure in a head look at a real cars head you take the value covers off and there is no pressuer just some oil thats made its way too there too keep the rockers and stuff lubed up,

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01-25-2006, 10:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
Z 5th Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: KANSAS Posts: 8,541	A couple of you are failing to see the big picture here. The 50cc Honda OHC engine was designed for 2.5 Horsepower. However, when you bore and stroke a motor, add a 300% oil pump, horsepower can be as much 7X that amount with a ton of pressure and heat inside the cases. The cases can't relieve all the pressure from the little tiny vent hose on the back of the motor and builds up a good amount of pressure in the head. A vent hose off the tappet helps relieve some of this pressure, but in some cases with the high-flow oil pumps and heavy weight racing oil, the oil will pump through the breather tube. The catch tank is added to accumulate the liquid and vapor and return it back to the crankcase. Is a breather needed for the head? It helps the longevity of the valve seals but your motor won't blow up without one. However, when done correctly, they add some nice bling to the bike. I run 'em on both of my bikes and on the Z50 it helps take up some of the dead space for the low pipe as well. Here's my beater Z50J:

01-25-2006, 11:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
mikep PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	kuroi, Try driving your car without your face over the oil cap hole and you wont need a catch can

01-26-2006, 12:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
kuroi 1st Gear Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 116	It was meant as an example, the example being that engines DO build up internal pressure, that's why cars have a PCV system to vent that pressure. I never said drive it like that anyway smarty....

01-26-2006, 03:52 AM	#17 (permalink)
mikep PM Newbie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	sorry my reply seemed a bit smart, but "Bzzzzttt!!! wrong" isn't a very nice way to start one either. I'm quite aware of PCV valves, but I can't recall many cars that I've worked on having breathers in the crankcase/block(like a fifty has). I also seem to remember at tech college in first year being taught that if pressure does blow out the oil filler hole the rings are probably worn. Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree. I've been running my z with an 88 kit at high revs to work and back most days for about 18 months. I think if there was a pressure broblem oil would have leaked out some of the rubber seals by now.

01-26-2006, 10:18 AM	#19 (permalink)
reynolds_brad Advertiser Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 2,719	Just a FYI guys there are cheap ones to be had as well. I got my 29.99 Thai Yoshimura (FAKE!) catch off ebay. I took the bet on the cheap part and lost, but hell it works for now and looks OK. I plan to Fab my own anyways once the new Garage is setup.

01-26-2006, 10:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
Brent878 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,147	the stock engine already has a breather and its on the bottom end, but the pressure at the bottom end and the topend are the same. Its in the same cavity. The reason for putting an additional breather is if the stock one can't handle the pressure coming out and you can blow seals. The pressure comes from the down stroke of the piston and doesn't matter on if the rings are worn or not its going to create pressure in the cases when the piston is comeing down. Now when you are putting out double the displacement than the stock piston 50 vs 108 or so then you are going to get double the pressure and the stock breather may or maynot be enough and the pressure has to come out other ways. If you take your breather hose off and just kick your bike a couple of times you can feel the air coming out so they are their for a reason. The catch can just lets the oil go back into the engine or can instead of on the ground if oil is blown through the breather tubes.