Planet Minis

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 10:55 AM

The Lifan L110GY-3 CT 70 clone is apparently notorious for chronic clutch slippage if a a changeover to synthetic oil is done befor there are about 2K miles on it.

THE MOST-RECENT KNUCKLEHEAD MISTAKE.
I did that changeover, too soon, of course: and of course the clutch slipped badly. No adjustments, internal or on the cable, had any effect whatsoever.

I drained the oil and replaced it with 10w-40 dino. It improved at first, but soon began slipping again. Apparently there is enough residual synthetic in the case to make a difference.

So, the question is: is it a good idea to flush the case out completely with a solvent of some kind before filling up once again with dino?

Thanks for your indilgenece, patience, suggestions, and advice.

weekendwarrior · 08-24-2009, 11:45 AM

How do i know if my clutch is "slipping?"

fatcaaat · 08-24-2009, 11:51 AM

You may have more to it than that to be honest. While you may have soaked your clutch plates with synthetic...that could permanently put a damper on the abilty of your clutch to work properly. If a automobile clutch gets soaked, it is pretty much shot. If you run regular motor oil in a wet clutch motorcycle (big bike) they slip and will always slip until you swap the plates. This happened on my cb750.

I guess you can put a cutter in the case and refil with dino but that may or may not solve the issue. If it doesn't, I'd recommend buying a new set of plates from trail bikes (three plate setup) and while you are at it, put in some HD springs. All in all it will run ya 30 beans shipped and you'll have a much more durable setup.

And, from my perspective, no need to run synthetic in these unless it is a full blown race motor. Run formulated motorcycle oil, like valvoline motorcycle at $4.29 a quart from Advance Auto at 29 and Henderson and change it every 400-500 miles.

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekendwarrior

How do i know if my clutch is "slipping?"

It either doesn't engage or engages incompletely. You'll know, believe me.

fatcaaat · 08-24-2009, 11:54 AM

And....when you're ready to update to a "real" motor, I have one here for you

firepower354 · 08-24-2009, 11:55 AM

Darn these engines, using the same oil for trans and power maker. My dingers worked fine with ATF in the gearbox.

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcaaat

You may have more to it than that to be honest. While you may have soaked your clutch plates with synthetic...that could permanently put a damper on the abilty of your clutch to work properly. If a automobile clutch gets soaked, it is pretty much shot. If you run regular motor oil in a wet clutch motorcycle (big bike) they slip and will always slip until you swap the plates. This happened on my cb750.

I guess you can put a cutter in the case and refil with dino but that may or may not solve the issue. If it doesn't, I'd recommend buying a new set of plates from trail bikes (three plate setup) and while you are at it, put in some HD springs. All in all it will run ya 30 beans shipped and you'll have a much more durable setup.

And, from my perspective, no need to run synthetic in these unless it is a full blown race motor. Run formulated motorcycle oil, like valvoline motorcycle at $4.29 a quart from Advance Auto at 29 and Henderson and change it every 400-500 miles.

Thank you, fatcaaat; I feared as much. Ah, well, clutch tear-down it will be. Gettin' on the wire to trail bikes as we speak...

I can already tell that there's gonna be another trip to the ER somewhere in all this...

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcaaat

And....when you're ready to update to a "real" motor, I have one here for you

Is that the one I saw on CList this morning?

mikev · 08-24-2009, 12:01 PM

It's a shot in the dark, but you might want to go down and grab a can of Seafoam and run that through the motor before you start tearing it apart.

Not the whole can, but put some in the oil, fire it up and get everything warm, and even shift through the gears to try and get it all circulated through before draining it all and refilling with dino oil again.

Worth a shot. Seafoam is some pretty cool stuff.

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

It's a shot in the dark, but you might want to go down and grab a can of Seafoam and run that through the motor before you start tearing it apart.

Not the whole can, but put some in the oil, fire it up and get everything warm, and even shift through the gears to try and get it all circulated through before draining it all and refilling with dino oil again.

Worth a shot. Seafoam is some pretty cool stuff.

A most excellent suggestion - I will give it a shot and report back.

fatcaaat · 08-24-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhandmoto

Is that the one I saw on CList this morning?

That is my motor, but not the motor I'm talking about...I have a trail bikes 108 with no home and a vintage project that isn't going to see the light of day for another year. So, I may sell the motor and get another when the wheels are on the ground, rather than in the rafters.

firepower354 · 08-24-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcaaat

And....when you're ready to update to a "real" motor, I have one here for you

I was about to PM you the same message

I really wanna see a 100MPH CT70, and REALLY don't wanna be riding it.lol

fatcaaat · 08-24-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firepower354

I was about to PM you the same message

I really wanna see a 100MPH CT70, and REALLY don't wanna be riding it.lol

I think with a 64 x 64 firepower build, v2 head, 28mm carb, and 18/27 gearing, we'd get there

D-Day · 08-24-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redhandmoto

A most excellent suggestion - I will give it a shot and report back.

Be sure you get oil WITH OUT friction modifiers in it like either 4-stroke motorcycle specific oil or my favorite Shell Rotella-T (diesel oil). Any regular automotive oil will have friction modifiers in it and will only enhance the problems you are having.

burch753 · 08-24-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcaaat

I think with a 64 x 64 firepower build, v2 head, 28mm carb, and 18/27 gearing, we'd get there

you guys are nuckin' futs!!!

firepower354 · 08-24-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatcaaat

I think with a 64 x 64 firepower build, v2 head, 28mm carb, and 18/27 gearing, we'd get there

65 square OK? I've only got so much stuff on the shelf

redhandmoto · 08-24-2009, 02:29 PM

Ok, errands done. Valvolene and Seafoam in hand. Wish me luck.

Mike at TB, btw, has just gotten back to me re: their part #TBW0404 3-plate set up; advises that they'll probably fit & work, but can't be positive, since he's never tried them in a Chinese engine.

redhandmoto · 08-26-2009, 03:48 PM

Yes, indeedy - thanks to our colleague mikev and his Seafoam suggestion, we are shiftin' again.

I drained the old oil, and refilled with fresh Valvolene, leaving enough room for an ounce and a half of Seafoam. Put it on the stand and let it run a long time, occasionally shifting up and down.

Drained the oil/Seafoam mix completely, and refilled again. While I was at it, I replaced the internal clutch adjustment screw (which was made of tofu, and which had stripped and deformed like Pla-Do) with a nice steel stud that my local parts guy found in his odds-n-ends box.

Fired it up and held my breath. Neutral! No turning wheel! Huzzah!

Ran it around all afternoon - clutch is working fine, soopah-fine.

Thanks, mikev - a great suggestion. Seafoam is indeed pretty cool stuff.

08-24-2009, 10:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
redhandmoto 1st Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NoVA Posts: 101 My Mood:	Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? The Lifan L110GY-3 CT 70 clone is apparently notorious for chronic clutch slippage if a a changeover to synthetic oil is done befor there are about 2K miles on it. THE MOST-RECENT KNUCKLEHEAD MISTAKE. I did that changeover, too soon, of course: and of course the clutch slipped badly. No adjustments, internal or on the cable, had any effect whatsoever. I drained the oil and replaced it with 10w-40 dino. It improved at first, but soon began slipping again. Apparently there is enough residual synthetic in the case to make a difference. So, the question is: is it a good idea to flush the case out completely with a solvent of some kind before filling up once again with dino? Thanks for your indilgenece, patience, suggestions, and advice.

08-24-2009, 11:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
weekendwarrior PM Newbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Welland Ontario Posts: 55 My Mood:	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? How do i know if my clutch is "slipping?"

08-24-2009, 11:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
fatcaaat 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,780	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? You may have more to it than that to be honest. While you may have soaked your clutch plates with synthetic...that could permanently put a damper on the abilty of your clutch to work properly. If a automobile clutch gets soaked, it is pretty much shot. If you run regular motor oil in a wet clutch motorcycle (big bike) they slip and will always slip until you swap the plates. This happened on my cb750. I guess you can put a cutter in the case and refil with dino but that may or may not solve the issue. If it doesn't, I'd recommend buying a new set of plates from trail bikes (three plate setup) and while you are at it, put in some HD springs. All in all it will run ya 30 beans shipped and you'll have a much more durable setup. And, from my perspective, no need to run synthetic in these unless it is a full blown race motor. Run formulated motorcycle oil, like valvoline motorcycle at $4.29 a quart from Advance Auto at 29 and Henderson and change it every 400-500 miles.

08-24-2009, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
fatcaaat 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 3,780	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? And....when you're ready to update to a "real" motor, I have one here for you

08-24-2009, 11:55 AM	#6 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,002 My Mood:	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? Darn these engines, using the same oil for trans and power maker. My dingers worked fine with ATF in the gearbox. __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

08-24-2009, 12:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
mikev 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 614	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? It's a shot in the dark, but you might want to go down and grab a can of Seafoam and run that through the motor before you start tearing it apart. Not the whole can, but put some in the oil, fire it up and get everything warm, and even shift through the gears to try and get it all circulated through before draining it all and refilling with dino oil again. Worth a shot. Seafoam is some pretty cool stuff.

08-24-2009, 02:29 PM	#17 (permalink)
redhandmoto 1st Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NoVA Posts: 101 My Mood:	Re: Oil Flushing to Resolve Slipping Clutch? Ok, errands done. Valvolene and Seafoam in hand. Wish me luck. Mike at TB, btw, has just gotten back to me re: their part #TBW0404 3-plate set up; advises that they'll probably fit & work, but can't be positive, since he's never tried them in a Chinese engine.

08-26-2009, 03:48 PM	#18 (permalink)
redhandmoto 1st Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NoVA Posts: 101 My Mood:	Houston, we have clutch! Yes, indeedy - thanks to our colleague mikev and his Seafoam suggestion, we are shiftin' again. I drained the old oil, and refilled with fresh Valvolene, leaving enough room for an ounce and a half of Seafoam. Put it on the stand and let it run a long time, occasionally shifting up and down. Drained the oil/Seafoam mix completely, and refilled again. While I was at it, I replaced the internal clutch adjustment screw (which was made of tofu, and which had stripped and deformed like Pla-Do) with a nice steel stud that my local parts guy found in his odds-n-ends box. Fired it up and held my breath. Neutral! No turning wheel! Huzzah! Ran it around all afternoon - clutch is working fine, soopah-fine. Thanks, mikev - a great suggestion. Seafoam is indeed pretty cool stuff.

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