Planet Minis

firepower354 · 02-25-2008, 09:11 PM

Can a Z be easily converted to 3 up? Just a drum and fork swap?
It seems like that's what people want. I think there would be less bent shift shafts if left 3 down, cuz the dipsticks wouldn't be using their heel to slam downshifts in to the turns.

thorwarrior915 · 02-25-2008, 09:15 PM

you can even use the Z shift forks if you grind down the edge of one of them. hard to explain. the edge of one of the forks will try to rub up against the inside of the case. you gotta grind a couple mm's off the edge and it will work fine. i'm talking about the circular part, not the part that moves the gear. figured that out the hard way.

arlindsay1992 · 02-26-2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorwarrior915

you can even use the Z shift forks if you grind down the edge of one of them. hard to explain. the edge of one of the forks will try to rub up against the inside of the case. you gotta grind a couple mm's off the edge and it will work fine. i'm talking about the circular part, not the part that moves the gear. figured that out the hard way.

I didn't know that before. And I still don't know it.

dirtbkr188 · 02-26-2008, 07:38 AM

I believe thor is referring to the outside edge of the fork part that is on the drum itself, as shown in the pic below. It could be the other fork, too, thor would have to clarify which one has to be ground down a bit.

This help you a little, alex ?

arlindsay1992 · 02-26-2008, 02:11 PM

And what does that accomplish?

dirtbkr188 · 02-26-2008, 04:01 PM

The fork doesn't bottom out on the inside edge of the engine case, where the drum fits through to the outer side of the case (where the shift star and detent arm are located).

arlindsay1992 · 02-26-2008, 04:18 PM

Why would it? I don't think mine does?

thorwarrior915 · 02-26-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arlindsay1992

I didn't know that before. And I still don't know it.

Are you calling me out?

firepower354 · 02-26-2008, 04:43 PM

Is that a Metric "bit" or English "bit" that needs trimmed off?

Oh, and what year did they switch from down to up?

tmas · 02-26-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firepower354

Oh, and what year did they switch from down to up?

88-99 , 3 up.

thorwarrior915 · 02-26-2008, 04:53 PM

when I converted a Z tranny, it was roughly 50 bucks for the drum. 40-50 i dont remeber exactly. I put the drum in, and put the tranny all together... but i couldn't get it to shift through the gears with the engine on the bench.

I was kinda racking my brain with ideas and theory's until i just sat and played with it for like an hour to realize what was happening. Pulled the fork off, got the angle grinder out, put it back together and it worked fine. I couldn't tell you how much needs to come off, I just let the sparks fly until I thought it would work... and it did.

thorwarrior915 · 02-26-2008, 04:58 PM

I just remembered that I did this when I was building a super-mutt engine with parts from like 4 different style engines. I almost think I was using CT70 cases, with a Z50R transmission, and an XR 50 shift drum. So maybe I only had to mod mine because I was being such a fiddy frankenstein? Maybe the Z cases have the clearance??

arlindsay1992 · 02-27-2008, 06:02 AM

Oh, so in order to use the 3-up drum with the 3 down forks, the forks need to be cut for clearance in CT70 cases. Possibly in all cases but that is not confirmed. Am I getting this?

Phat50s · 02-29-2008, 10:06 AM

I installed a 3 up drum in a 79 z50 with no mods and it works fine. Just changed the drum only - no forks and no grinding.
Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks.

firepower354 · 02-29-2008, 10:42 AM

Well, that clears it up: It may or may not require grinding. At least I now know it will go in the cases

s_10onbagz · 03-03-2008, 06:22 PM

why are you guys downgrading to 3-up? i loved 3-down but i just got a ct70h tranny.

Dogboy · 12-08-2008, 10:43 PM

I am interested in this conversion, I am planning on fitting a manual clutch to my 3 down z50 engine and thought I'd change the shift pattern at the same time.

Do you have to split the cases to swap the 3 down drum for the 3 up drum?

cdoublejj · 12-08-2008, 11:22 PM

on my lifan 125 i miss neutral every time i hold in the clutch then kill it to turn it off. Then i with play it till it goes in neutral it unusually skips right past neutral and into second. so i can say i guess i don't care for 1 down 3 up or i don't know the benefits.

Dogboy · 12-09-2008, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoublejj

on my lifan 125 i miss neutral every time i hold in the clutch then kill it to turn it off. Then i with play it till it goes in neutral it unusually skips right past neutral and into second. so i can say i guess i don't care for 1 down 3 up or i don't know the benefits.

This thread isn't about lifan engines. Its about converting the old 6v z50 engines to the shifting pattern of the newer 12v crf50 engines. which are n-1-2-3.

The problem you have was fixed with the newer lifans that now run a n-1-2-3-4.

Can someone tell me if you have to split the cases to swap the 3 down drum for the 3 up drum?

arlindsay1992 · 12-09-2008, 05:22 AM

Yes. Split the cases, remove the transmission, disassemble the shift drum. Not hard though. I did it my first time at age 14. Since your motor is kind of old, you might want to pick up a new set of shift pins for smoother shifting.

02-25-2008, 09:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 10,989 My Mood:	Shift pattern conversion Can a Z be easily converted to 3 up? Just a drum and fork swap? It seems like that's what people want. I think there would be less bent shift shafts if left 3 down, cuz the dipsticks wouldn't be using their heel to slam downshifts in to the turns. __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

02-25-2008, 09:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
thorwarrior915 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malone, NY Posts: 4,549 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion you can even use the Z shift forks if you grind down the edge of one of them. hard to explain. the edge of one of the forks will try to rub up against the inside of the case. you gotta grind a couple mm's off the edge and it will work fine. i'm talking about the circular part, not the part that moves the gear. figured that out the hard way.

02-26-2008, 07:38 AM	#4 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,970	Re: Shift pattern conversion I believe thor is referring to the outside edge of the fork part that is on the drum itself, as shown in the pic below. It could be the other fork, too, thor would have to clarify which one has to be ground down a bit. This help you a little, alex ?

02-26-2008, 02:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
arlindsay1992 "High Speed Record Guy" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 4,369	Re: Shift pattern conversion And what does that accomplish?

02-26-2008, 04:01 PM	#6 (permalink)
dirtbkr188 3rd Gear Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,970	Re: Shift pattern conversion The fork doesn't bottom out on the inside edge of the engine case, where the drum fits through to the outer side of the case (where the shift star and detent arm are located).

02-26-2008, 04:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
arlindsay1992 "High Speed Record Guy" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 4,369	Re: Shift pattern conversion Why would it? I don't think mine does?

02-26-2008, 04:43 PM	#9 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 10,989 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion Is that a Metric "bit" or English "bit" that needs trimmed off? Oh, and what year did they switch from down to up? __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

02-26-2008, 04:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
thorwarrior915 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malone, NY Posts: 4,549 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion when I converted a Z tranny, it was roughly 50 bucks for the drum. 40-50 i dont remeber exactly. I put the drum in, and put the tranny all together... but i couldn't get it to shift through the gears with the engine on the bench. I was kinda racking my brain with ideas and theory's until i just sat and played with it for like an hour to realize what was happening. Pulled the fork off, got the angle grinder out, put it back together and it worked fine. I couldn't tell you how much needs to come off, I just let the sparks fly until I thought it would work... and it did.

02-26-2008, 04:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
thorwarrior915 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malone, NY Posts: 4,549 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion I just remembered that I did this when I was building a super-mutt engine with parts from like 4 different style engines. I almost think I was using CT70 cases, with a Z50R transmission, and an XR 50 shift drum. So maybe I only had to mod mine because I was being such a fiddy frankenstein? Maybe the Z cases have the clearance??

02-27-2008, 06:02 AM	#13 (permalink)
arlindsay1992 "High Speed Record Guy" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 4,369	Re: Shift pattern conversion Oh, so in order to use the 3-up drum with the 3 down forks, the forks need to be cut for clearance in CT70 cases. Possibly in all cases but that is not confirmed. Am I getting this?

02-29-2008, 10:06 AM	#14 (permalink)
Phat50s PM Newbie Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 42	Re: Shift pattern conversion I installed a 3 up drum in a 79 z50 with no mods and it works fine. Just changed the drum only - no forks and no grinding. Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks.

02-29-2008, 10:42 AM	#15 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 10,989 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion Well, that clears it up: It may or may not require grinding. At least I now know it will go in the cases __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

03-03-2008, 06:22 PM	#16 (permalink)
s_10onbagz 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Connecticut. Posts: 1,550	Re: Shift pattern conversion why are you guys downgrading to 3-up? i loved 3-down but i just got a ct70h tranny.

12-08-2008, 10:43 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dogboy PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 85 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion I am interested in this conversion, I am planning on fitting a manual clutch to my 3 down z50 engine and thought I'd change the shift pattern at the same time. Do you have to split the cases to swap the 3 down drum for the 3 up drum?

12-08-2008, 11:22 PM	#18 (permalink)
cdoublejj 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St.Joe MO Posts: 1,367 My Mood:	Re: Shift pattern conversion on my lifan 125 i miss neutral every time i hold in the clutch then kill it to turn it off. Then i with play it till it goes in neutral it unusually skips right past neutral and into second. so i can say i guess i don't care for 1 down 3 up or i don't know the benefits.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

12-09-2008, 05:22 AM	#20 (permalink)
arlindsay1992 "High Speed Record Guy" Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 4,369	Re: Shift pattern conversion Yes. Split the cases, remove the transmission, disassemble the shift drum. Not hard though. I did it my first time at age 14. Since your motor is kind of old, you might want to pick up a new set of shift pins for smoother shifting.