Planet Minis

sanigene

Just put new points and condesor in. Also replaced all the crap philips screws with allen caps and buttons on all the mouthings inside the magneto.

ANyway, I'm doing the static timing usign the lightbulb tool and what I want to know is the following:

1) is advanced when the light comes on a little before the line on the stator is aligned with the notch in the case or a little after the notch?
2) should I set the timing advanced or retarded? Which is better?

Thanks in advance.

sani

arlindsay1992

Advanved timing is better. The light should change brightness right when the "F" mark lines up with the case notch.

dayj1

When viewed from the flywheel side, the motor turns counter-clockwise, so advancing the timing would be where the F mark on the flywheel is before the mark on the engine case (to the right). In my experience, a stock 50 runs best with a little extra advance. Try it with the about an 1/8 inch distance between the "F" and the mark on the case (with the "F" on the right).

You can experiment some, but if the mark is off by 1/4 inch or more either way, it will run like crap.

/dayj1

arlindsay1992

Actually you would want the "F" mark about 1/8 inch to the RIGHT of the case notch because think about it. If the engine spins counter clockwise, then moving the "F" to the left means that the engine will have to spin further before ignition. Thus retarding the timing. Moving the "F" to the right, would mean the engine doesn't have to spin as far before ignition thus making it advanced. Other advantages to advanced timing are more power, different power curve(depending on how far advanced), better fuel milage(MPG is always good), and faster acceleration(very minimal difference).

dayj1

Thanks for the correction. I edited my original post to cut down on the confusion. The "F" mark on the flywheel is before top dead center (BTDC) and by increasing the number of degrees (i.e. firing before the "F" mark) you are increasing the number of degrees BTDC and advancing the timing. I knew what I meant, but I say it wrong about 90% of the time!

/dayj1

davez

Don't you have to set the advance with a strobe light while the engine is running? he's using a static timing light

arlindsay1992

I don't think that these engines have an advance. But I think it's easier to use the strobe. But either can be used for what he's doing. I use this from Sears.

davez

He said he's setting "static" timing but all you guys are telling how to set his advanced timing , he doesnt have a strobe light just homemade static timing lightbulb, therefor he can't set his advanced timing without the bike running.

arlindsay1992

Okay. Whatever. I'm no longer a part of this conversation. I'll keep watching until I un-confuse myself.

dayj1

Since a stock 50 doesn't have any type of advance mechanism, static timing is the same in this case. Granted, it won't be _exactly_ the same with the engine running due to things like point bounce, wear, etc., but it will be very close. IF there were some sort of advancing mechanism (mechanical or vacuum) then, yes, static timing would vary from what is seen with the engine running.

/dayj1

arlindsay1992

But wouldn't you want to set it with the engine running? You don't care about the difference when the engine isn't running, do you? It doesn't matter. It's what happens when the engine's running that counts.

dayj1

Technically, it would be very difficult to set it with the engine running! Since you'd have to stick a screwdriver through the hole in the flywheel to change the point gap while it's spinning at 1500 RPM.

Just having a little fun with you, Q. I know that you mean you can _check_ the timing with the engine running and you set it with the engine off.

And, yes, I would check mine with a timing light with the engine running. The original poster implied that he only has a test light, though. So setting the static timing with the light should be very close to the same thing. The difference in the two methods should be negligible if done correctly.

/dayj1

arlindsay1992

Yep, yep, yep. I should have said "check it with the engine running..."

davez

ohh, so they don't have an advance mechanism..... then the strobe light is not needed........ I'm lucky on the ZB its electronic

Fullthrottle

as dayJ1 says... when engine running you could check...
if someone else are able to ajust when engine running do a video!

sanigene

Hey, sorry for the super slacker slow response to your answers. Thanks to all. Luckily I have not been online since I posted so I never had the chance to get confused by your confusing and corrected un-confusing messages. So I'm good. I understand the static timing requirements. Need a little advance. Means F to the right of the notch when light dims.

But what seems apparent is that perhaps I should check the dynamic timing, yes? I have access to a strobe light from a buddy at work. But don't you have to have the rpm set precisly for the strobe anaylsis to be correct? I have no tach and I bet my idle speed is not to factory spec 'cause I have an oversized carb and had to play with the idle mix to get it nice....

Any confusing thoughts on that?

sani

@ davez - I'm a bluenoser too.

arlindsay1992

The strobe has a pickup that goes around the spark plug wire. When it senses the spark through the insulation(I don't know how), it lights up thus showing where the engine is at fire. It works at any rpm. But it needs to be hooked up to a 12v battery. So hook it up to a car battery. Just do it when it's not too bright because then you can't see the light.

sanigene

Ok. So when the strobe goes off then you should see the F right at the notch on the crankcase, or a little to the right of the notch for advanced timing...right?!

sani

dayj1

correct.

mikep

Another easy way to set z points is to use a piece of thin cigarette paper. stick it between the points and adjust them so that while pulling the paper lightly it slips out when the marks line up. you can then double check with a timing light. you would be suprised how close you can get them this way, and it's handy if you don't have a light around. It's also easier to get it close this way without having to keep starting and stopping the engine.
Q, you might have trouble explaining why you have ciggie papers to your parents though.