Planet Minis

PEACEOUT · 10-22-2009, 02:23 AM

Are the hardtails more rare?

Are the swingarmed models more popular for modding?

Would you rather have a hardtail Z50 or a swingarmed Z50, and why?

Generally speaking is the Z50 a Monkey???

Sorry for the noob ???s as my 1st post.

Thank you for all your replies!!!

weekendwarrior · 10-22-2009, 07:11 AM

the hardtails are more ment for crusiing around on the street or smooth trail rides

yes because they're more parts avaliable, but unless you want to do some customizing to a swing arm z50 you can make any part fit on a hardtail.

swing arm z50 because if you want to do more riding and jumps and other stuff get a z50r, if you wanna restore bikes and not be a hardcore rider, get a hardtail.

i'm not 100% sure, send the user "Z" a personal message.

these are just my personal answers/oppinions i probably am wrong so don't take my word for it

cdoublejj · 10-22-2009, 07:12 AM

i'd rather have a sof tail and i do have one. soft tails have more modding options and if you have a bumpy ride you don't get an ass pounding.

mexicanyella · 10-22-2009, 07:19 AM

I have a hardtail and my son has a Z50R (softtail). The hardtail has a bumpier ride (running a slightly wider tire in the rear with lower pressure helps the ride, but not the power) and it's not the way to go for rough fast off-roading or jumping, but that doesn't matter to me, because I'm a 250 lb. guy and NO bike with 8" wheels and less than 3" of suspension travel is the way to go for rough off-roading and jumping at my size.

The hardtail is a bone-simple, tough bike that is handy for low-speed off-roading; I use it like a small ATV on the farm and for cruising on gravel roads. Softtail Zs are noticeably better at going fast over bumps; no big surprise there. My son's Z50R has a more raked-out front end geometry than my hardtail, and thus steers slower, which feels weird to me since I'm more used to a hardtail.

One other factor to consider is rider ergonomics. As delivered Z50Rs are pretty cramped and aimed at kids. Hardtails and the early softtails (Z50As from '72-'7

have two-position adjustable seat height and more room between the bars, footpegs and seat, so if you're after a stocker they'll be roomier to ride. Adults fit on Z50Rs after doing seat and/or peg and/or handlebar mods.

Try to ride one or more of each if you can.

PEACEOUT · 10-22-2009, 01:05 PM

Thanks for all the quick replies. Wealth of experience and knowledge. I really appreciate it.

Generally speaking the "Hardtails" are more RARE? I see mostly the softails in pictures online.

Again thank you for all the replies!!!

Aloha!

Z · 10-22-2009, 01:44 PM

A restored hardtail will be worth more then a restored softtail as a general rule. These are currently more collectable.

1972-1978 Z50's are cheap at the moment and have a front headlamp and rear taillamp.

1979-1987 Z50's have the most aftermarket parts available overseas in regards to tanks, bodywork and suspension upgrades.

1988-1999 Z50's look like the more traditional dirtbike.

I don't own any hardtails as I like my bikes to have suspension in the rear for a safer ride, especially when you start stuffing in higher-horsepower engines and other performance modifications.

Just don't build a bike to make money selling it. Build it the way you want it to ride and enjoy.

It's all about personal preference and how you plan to use the bike. The decision is up to you to decide which way you want to go.

50-50 · 10-22-2009, 01:55 PM

Why are you asking these questions? Are you planning on building one?

PEACEOUT · 10-22-2009, 02:36 PM

Just confirming with the experts. My friends locally say conflicting things. Nice to get opinions from people who are fanatics.

I have a project 1971 Z50A K2. I was told it was a hardtail K2 by the helpful folks at CHP.

Just got it the other day.

Runs great, and starts right up on the 1st kick. Haven't had the time to bring it on the public street yet. Waiting for Sunday with all the slower traffic.

Needs a full restoration, but I think I'm gonna keep it all rusty and just ride it like that "Gangsta Local Boy" style.

It is legally registered as a bicycle/moped in Honolulu, Hawaii, which means it has a permanent license tag good for life.

I always loved the Monkeys since I first saw one in Japan. I tried to bring back the Gold Edition, but it was a hassle to carry it on the train from "Bike Town".

Aloha!!!

z50 chopper · 10-22-2009, 08:49 PM

remember to wd40 the rusted areas/bare metal to protect the metal from rusting more.
Living near the ocean with all that salt in the air can play havoc on bare metal unless you protect it some way, I am more thinking of the tank fenders and headlight housing.

mexicanyella · 10-23-2009, 07:14 AM

I have a project 1971 Z50A K2. I was told it was a hardtail K2 by the helpful folks at CHP.

Needs a full restoration, but I think I'm gonna keep it all rusty and just ride it like that "Gangsta Local Boy" style.

It is legally registered as a bicycle/moped in Honolulu, Hawaii, which means it has a permanent license tag good for life.

You need to post up photos of your bike for us. Some of us like seeing them in rusty as-found condition. I actually like owning them and operating them in as-found condition wherever possible...but I'm kind of weird like that.

A rusty hardtail against a backdrop that's obviously tropical would be great right now. Here's it's about 40 degrees, windy, rainy and muddy. I feel like looking at desert or beach pictures.

Z50 Chopper's suggestion regarding salt air and corrosion is a good one. Z50 tanks seem to happily rust out when they're 1,000 miles or more from the ocean if there's any humidity. Keep that thing full of waterless fuel and remember that oily grime makes for an effective salt barrier!

PEACEOUT · 10-23-2009, 11:38 PM

Seems to be missing a lot of the original parts. Looks like the original owner borrowed some parts from a QA50...Can you guys enlighten me on what's been Ghetto rigged?

cdoublejj · 10-23-2009, 11:43 PM

thats why you get more power, so you can go faster and keep up. also whats rigged are the , head light, bars, seat and possibly more, doesn't look to shabby either.

z50 chopper · 10-24-2009, 12:56 AM

that tank looks like it is from a QA50

PEACEOUT · 10-24-2009, 03:47 AM

Yup it looks wierd with the QA50 tank and the other odd parts, but for now I'm just gonna clean it up a little and spend as little time/money as possible.

I just want to ride it everywhere

mexicanyella · 10-24-2009, 06:33 AM

Yep:

QA tank

no rear fender

QA handlebars and handlebar mount and upper triple clamp

Headlight: that headlight looks like it's for a softtail Z50A to me, which takes a wider spacing between the mounting ears than the more teardrop-shaped metal headlight bucket a hardtail would normally have, thus the red "spacer" things holding the headlight on.

Seat's been recovered.

No fork boots.

Taillight and license plate (?) mounted to rear frame tab under seat, instead of on giant prehistoric mastodon-shaped holder it would have originally had (see pic below)

Non-stock air filter, though I can't see what it is (mine has a lawnmower air filter at the moment)

The presence of a rear footbrake indicates it is a K2 model.

I think it looks pretty cool like it is. I like the QA tank and bars on it. Your azz will get wet if you ride in the rain with no rear fender, but that doesn't stop a lot of chopper guys. Be careful you don't screw up and get yourself caught on that spinning tire though. The only thing I'm looking screwy-eyed at is the headlight mounting, which looks like an unsecure afterthought. Hardtail headlight buckets aren't cheap, as z50 chopper could tell you, but maybe you could just use that light and fab up a different mounting arrangement to get it higher up for better visbility, and make it rigid and strong.

Fork boots would be good too, to keep the grease in and the grit out.

I might get excommunicated for this, but I almost think I like the QA tank better than a stock hardtail tank. It looks cool on there! Plus there's all that cooling air flow to the ignition coil that way.

Here's my K2; note headlight bucket shape, position and mounting and rear fender, taillight bracket, etc.

cdoublejj · 10-24-2009, 06:48 AM

Nice to finally match the words with a picture, you ever think of doing a stingerectomy for more power?

mexicanyella · 10-24-2009, 07:10 AM

Who, me? Or Peaceout?

Hardtail stingerectomies produce more noise, and deeper noise, but they don't make the bike faster. It's worth saying that open headpipes on hardtails, or low-slung straightpipes made from ATC70 headpipes, don't make stock hardtails any faster either; just really loud and slow. Slow works better when the bike makes a cute little noise and putters along than when it sounds like a group of methanol-burning speedway bikes backing into a turn. They are not exhaust pipe-limited in stock form, hard as it is to believe. Until mods are done to the motor, the stock exhaust will do the job.

Softtail pipes have more expansion area in them and pulling the stinger out may make a more dramatic difference, but I doubt it. It's more noise and wishful thinking, probably. If I'd heard myself saying this when I was 16-18, I'd be horrified, but what can I say?

If you ever have a hardtail's headpipe out of the muffler you'll see it's pinched into an hourglass shape on the end where it fits in. You'll be tempted to eliminate this too, as I did. It's not worth the effort, because it doesn't add anything. I cut this section out of mine and brazed in a section of straight tube that diameter. Might have changed the exhaust tone a bit but didn't run any different. Now I've got a full stock pipe on mine again after the modded one finally rusted through, and it runs the same now too. It's funky but it works on a stock motor.

PEACEOUT · 10-24-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexicanyella

Yep:

QA tank

no rear fender

QA handlebars and handlebar mount and upper triple clamp

Headlight: that headlight looks like it's for a softtail Z50A to me, which takes a wider spacing between the mounting ears than the more teardrop-shaped metal headlight bucket a hardtail would normally have, thus the red "spacer" things holding the headlight on.

Seat's been recovered.

No fork boots.

Taillight and license plate (?) mounted to rear frame tab under seat, instead of on giant prehistoric mastodon-shaped holder it would have originally had (see pic below)

Non-stock air filter, though I can't see what it is (mine has a lawnmower air filter at the moment)

The presence of a rear footbrake indicates it is a K2 model.

I think it looks pretty cool like it is. I like the QA tank and bars on it. Your azz will get wet if you ride in the rain with no rear fender, but that doesn't stop a lot of chopper guys. Be careful you don't screw up and get yourself caught on that spinning tire though. The only thing I'm looking screwy-eyed at is the headlight mounting, which looks like an unsecure afterthought. Hardtail headlight buckets aren't cheap, as z50 chopper could tell you, but maybe you could just use that light and fab up a different mounting arrangement to get it higher up for better visbility, and make it rigid and strong.

Fork boots would be good too, to keep the grease in and the grit out.

I might get excommunicated for this, but I almost think I like the QA tank better than a stock hardtail tank. It looks cool on there! Plus there's all that cooling air flow to the ignition coil that way.

Here's my K2; note headlight bucket shape, position and mounting and rear fender, taillight bracket, etc.

Awesome. Thanks for the quick review. I just plan to clean it up and ride it!

Does anyone know why it gets harder to shift when it warms up??? I was thinking of changing the oil, but I don't know what to use. It really sputters alot with poor power. Where should I start???

Thanks!

mxr33 · 10-24-2009, 03:08 PM

i like the looks of it, i personally think you have the right philosophy, just ride it and have fun.

cdoublejj · 10-24-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mexicanyella

Who, me? Or Peaceout?

Hardtail stingerectomies produce more noise, and deeper noise, but they don't make the bike faster. It's worth saying that open headpipes on hardtails, or low-slung straightpipes made from ATC70 headpipes, don't make stock hardtails any faster either; just really loud and slow. Slow works better when the bike makes a cute little noise and putters along than when it sounds like a group of methanol-burning speedway bikes backing into a turn. They are not exhaust pipe-limited in stock form, hard as it is to believe. Until mods are done to the motor, the stock exhaust will do the job.

Softtail pipes have more expansion area in them and pulling the stinger out may make a more dramatic difference, but I doubt it. It's more noise and wishful thinking, probably. If I'd heard myself saying this when I was 16-18, I'd be horrified, but what can I say?

If you ever have a hardtail's headpipe out of the muffler you'll see it's pinched into an hourglass shape on the end where it fits in. You'll be tempted to eliminate this too, as I did. It's not worth the effort, because it doesn't add anything. I cut this section out of mine and brazed in a section of straight tube that diameter. Might have changed the exhaust tone a bit but didn't run any different. Now I've got a full stock pipe on mine again after the modded one finally rusted through, and it runs the same now too. It's funky but it works on a stock motor.

you! maybe not power or noise but, letting it breath better might help mpg???

10-22-2009, 02:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
PEACEOUT PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32	Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Are the hardtails more rare? Are the swingarmed models more popular for modding? Would you rather have a hardtail Z50 or a swingarmed Z50, and why? Generally speaking is the Z50 a Monkey??? Sorry for the noob ???s as my 1st post. Thank you for all your replies!!! Last edited by PEACEOUT; 10-22-2009 at 02:36 AM.

10-22-2009, 07:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
weekendwarrior PM Newbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Welland Ontario Posts: 55 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? the hardtails are more ment for crusiing around on the street or smooth trail rides yes because they're more parts avaliable, but unless you want to do some customizing to a swing arm z50 you can make any part fit on a hardtail. swing arm z50 because if you want to do more riding and jumps and other stuff get a z50r, if you wanna restore bikes and not be a hardcore rider, get a hardtail. i'm not 100% sure, send the user "Z" a personal message. these are just my personal answers/oppinions i probably am wrong so don't take my word for it

10-22-2009, 07:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
cdoublejj 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St.Joe MO Posts: 1,371 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? i'd rather have a sof tail and i do have one. soft tails have more modding options and if you have a bumpy ride you don't get an ass pounding.

10-22-2009, 07:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 984	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? I have a hardtail and my son has a Z50R (softtail). The hardtail has a bumpier ride (running a slightly wider tire in the rear with lower pressure helps the ride, but not the power) and it's not the way to go for rough fast off-roading or jumping, but that doesn't matter to me, because I'm a 250 lb. guy and NO bike with 8" wheels and less than 3" of suspension travel is the way to go for rough off-roading and jumping at my size. The hardtail is a bone-simple, tough bike that is handy for low-speed off-roading; I use it like a small ATV on the farm and for cruising on gravel roads. Softtail Zs are noticeably better at going fast over bumps; no big surprise there. My son's Z50R has a more raked-out front end geometry than my hardtail, and thus steers slower, which feels weird to me since I'm more used to a hardtail. One other factor to consider is rider ergonomics. As delivered Z50Rs are pretty cramped and aimed at kids. Hardtails and the early softtails (Z50As from '72-'7 have two-position adjustable seat height and more room between the bars, footpegs and seat, so if you're after a stocker they'll be roomier to ride. Adults fit on Z50Rs after doing seat and/or peg and/or handlebar mods. Try to ride one or more of each if you can. Last edited by mexicanyella; 10-22-2009 at 07:23 AM.

10-22-2009, 01:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
PEACEOUT PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Thanks for all the quick replies. Wealth of experience and knowledge. I really appreciate it. Generally speaking the "Hardtails" are more RARE? I see mostly the softails in pictures online. Again thank you for all the replies!!! Aloha!

10-22-2009, 01:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Z 5th Gear Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: KANSAS Posts: 8,540	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? A restored hardtail will be worth more then a restored softtail as a general rule. These are currently more collectable. 1972-1978 Z50's are cheap at the moment and have a front headlamp and rear taillamp. 1979-1987 Z50's have the most aftermarket parts available overseas in regards to tanks, bodywork and suspension upgrades. 1988-1999 Z50's look like the more traditional dirtbike. I don't own any hardtails as I like my bikes to have suspension in the rear for a safer ride, especially when you start stuffing in higher-horsepower engines and other performance modifications. Just don't build a bike to make money selling it. Build it the way you want it to ride and enjoy. It's all about personal preference and how you plan to use the bike. The decision is up to you to decide which way you want to go.

10-22-2009, 01:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
50-50 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PA Posts: 1,844 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Why are you asking these questions? Are you planning on building one?

10-22-2009, 02:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
PEACEOUT PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Just confirming with the experts. My friends locally say conflicting things. Nice to get opinions from people who are fanatics. I have a project 1971 Z50A K2. I was told it was a hardtail K2 by the helpful folks at CHP. Just got it the other day. Runs great, and starts right up on the 1st kick. Haven't had the time to bring it on the public street yet. Waiting for Sunday with all the slower traffic. Needs a full restoration, but I think I'm gonna keep it all rusty and just ride it like that "Gangsta Local Boy" style. It is legally registered as a bicycle/moped in Honolulu, Hawaii, which means it has a permanent license tag good for life. I always loved the Monkeys since I first saw one in Japan. I tried to bring back the Gold Edition, but it was a hassle to carry it on the train from "Bike Town". Aloha!!!

10-22-2009, 08:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
z50 chopper 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 504 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? remember to wd40 the rusted areas/bare metal to protect the metal from rusting more. Living near the ocean with all that salt in the air can play havoc on bare metal unless you protect it some way, I am more thinking of the tank fenders and headlight housing.

10-23-2009, 07:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 984	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? I have a project 1971 Z50A K2. I was told it was a hardtail K2 by the helpful folks at CHP. Needs a full restoration, but I think I'm gonna keep it all rusty and just ride it like that "Gangsta Local Boy" style. It is legally registered as a bicycle/moped in Honolulu, Hawaii, which means it has a permanent license tag good for life. You need to post up photos of your bike for us. Some of us like seeing them in rusty as-found condition. I actually like owning them and operating them in as-found condition wherever possible...but I'm kind of weird like that. A rusty hardtail against a backdrop that's obviously tropical would be great right now. Here's it's about 40 degrees, windy, rainy and muddy. I feel like looking at desert or beach pictures. Z50 Chopper's suggestion regarding salt air and corrosion is a good one. Z50 tanks seem to happily rust out when they're 1,000 miles or more from the ocean if there's any humidity. Keep that thing full of waterless fuel and remember that oily grime makes for an effective salt barrier! Last edited by mexicanyella; 10-23-2009 at 07:18 AM.

10-23-2009, 11:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
PEACEOUT PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Seems to be missing a lot of the original parts. Looks like the original owner borrowed some parts from a QA50...Can you guys enlighten me on what's been Ghetto rigged? Attached Thumbnails

10-23-2009, 11:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
cdoublejj 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St.Joe MO Posts: 1,371 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? thats why you get more power, so you can go faster and keep up. also whats rigged are the , head light, bars, seat and possibly more, doesn't look to shabby either. Last edited by cdoublejj; 10-23-2009 at 11:45 PM.

10-24-2009, 12:56 AM	#13 (permalink)
z50 chopper 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada Posts: 504 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? that tank looks like it is from a QA50

10-24-2009, 03:47 AM	#14 (permalink)
PEACEOUT PM Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 32	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Yup it looks wierd with the QA50 tank and the other odd parts, but for now I'm just gonna clean it up a little and spend as little time/money as possible. I just want to ride it everywhere

10-24-2009, 06:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 984	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Yep: QA tank no rear fender QA handlebars and handlebar mount and upper triple clamp Headlight: that headlight looks like it's for a softtail Z50A to me, which takes a wider spacing between the mounting ears than the more teardrop-shaped metal headlight bucket a hardtail would normally have, thus the red "spacer" things holding the headlight on. Seat's been recovered. No fork boots. Taillight and license plate (?) mounted to rear frame tab under seat, instead of on giant prehistoric mastodon-shaped holder it would have originally had (see pic below) Non-stock air filter, though I can't see what it is (mine has a lawnmower air filter at the moment) The presence of a rear footbrake indicates it is a K2 model. I think it looks pretty cool like it is. I like the QA tank and bars on it. Your azz will get wet if you ride in the rain with no rear fender, but that doesn't stop a lot of chopper guys. Be careful you don't screw up and get yourself caught on that spinning tire though. The only thing I'm looking screwy-eyed at is the headlight mounting, which looks like an unsecure afterthought. Hardtail headlight buckets aren't cheap, as z50 chopper could tell you, but maybe you could just use that light and fab up a different mounting arrangement to get it higher up for better visbility, and make it rigid and strong. Fork boots would be good too, to keep the grease in and the grit out. I might get excommunicated for this, but I almost think I like the QA tank better than a stock hardtail tank. It looks cool on there! Plus there's all that cooling air flow to the ignition coil that way. Here's my K2; note headlight bucket shape, position and mounting and rear fender, taillight bracket, etc. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mexicanyella; 10-24-2009 at 06:50 AM.

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10-24-2009, 06:48 AM	#16 (permalink)
cdoublejj 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: St.Joe MO Posts: 1,371 My Mood:	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Nice to finally match the words with a picture, you ever think of doing a stingerectomy for more power?

10-24-2009, 07:10 AM	#17 (permalink)
mexicanyella El rey de los puntos Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Troy, MO Posts: 984	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? Who, me? Or Peaceout? Hardtail stingerectomies produce more noise, and deeper noise, but they don't make the bike faster. It's worth saying that open headpipes on hardtails, or low-slung straightpipes made from ATC70 headpipes, don't make stock hardtails any faster either; just really loud and slow. Slow works better when the bike makes a cute little noise and putters along than when it sounds like a group of methanol-burning speedway bikes backing into a turn. They are not exhaust pipe-limited in stock form, hard as it is to believe. Until mods are done to the motor, the stock exhaust will do the job. Softtail pipes have more expansion area in them and pulling the stinger out may make a more dramatic difference, but I doubt it. It's more noise and wishful thinking, probably. If I'd heard myself saying this when I was 16-18, I'd be horrified, but what can I say? If you ever have a hardtail's headpipe out of the muffler you'll see it's pinched into an hourglass shape on the end where it fits in. You'll be tempted to eliminate this too, as I did. It's not worth the effort, because it doesn't add anything. I cut this section out of mine and brazed in a section of straight tube that diameter. Might have changed the exhaust tone a bit but didn't run any different. Now I've got a full stock pipe on mine again after the modded one finally rusted through, and it runs the same now too. It's funky but it works on a stock motor. Last edited by mexicanyella; 10-24-2009 at 07:17 AM.

10-24-2009, 03:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
mxr33 1st Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: indepMo Posts: 197	Re: Z50 Hardtail VS Swingarm??? i like the looks of it, i personally think you have the right philosophy, just ride it and have fun.