Planet Minis

08klx110 · 10-31-2009, 05:36 AM

i am lookin to run in the master of minis series in 2010 and i have all my suspension set up and stuff but i need a big bore kit. i am looking to spend uder 900 and get awesome power, i am most likely going to be runnung yoots,unlimited,and 10/12 rockstar for classes. what big bore kit should i get?

otis · 10-31-2009, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Bolt USA

if you want my opion get the takagawa 178cc skut kit and the V2 head ,,,this is a stupid fast combo

...

firepower354 · 10-31-2009, 07:10 AM

How long are you wanting it to live???

The S-cut makes great power, but almost everyone has discovered that they are limited in service life. Check the carnage pics posted regularly.

We do some different bore size BBK's with a steel sleeve and skirt-type piston.

Now that Dood's wandered back to "real" bikes, I'm the only one left that believes in the benefits of such a combo...

klx 110 master · 10-31-2009, 07:31 AM

165 v2 head stocker and 4 gear that about 890 bucks

T Bolt USA · 10-31-2009, 07:40 AM

We believe in whats working in race engine , race engines need to be maintained , if your not going to change your rings on a regular time frame and replace pistons when needed

We believe in RACE PROVEN TB parts , Takagawa parts
actually we have one of the original 178cc / 67mm + kits from the very first batch that has been thru MANY races over the past year
Nikasil and ceramic coated cylinders were the way of the future in 1985 !!
EVERY MAJOR JAPANESE 4 STROKE MX BIKE IS A SHORT SKIRT SLIPPER PISTON COATED CYLINDER ENGINE

T Bolt USA · 10-31-2009, 07:43 AM

TB 184cc or Takagawa 178cc
V2 head
tb manual clutch
takeagawa kevlar clutch plates and primary gear
tb HD output shaft and 4 speed drum

no machine shop required any can build this and go win races
let me know when your ready or if this is to expensive

firepower354 · 10-31-2009, 02:12 PM

EVERY MAJOR JAPANESE 4 STROKE MX BIKE IS A SHORT SKIRT SLIPPER PISTON COATED CYLINDER ENGINE
And, is water cooled, with substantial aluminum around the bore for equal temperature, has a vastly different bore/stroke relationship than the slugs we ride, and even then have factory recommended piston lifespans shorter than a Beavis & Butthead Marathon.

Different thickness aluminum expands at different rates. Different temperature aluminum expands at different rates. Air cooled engines, especially highly stressed ones, with bores crowding stud holes, SOHC, shielded cam tunnel, etc can NOT maintain ring seal due to bore distortion. For that reason, slipper skirt pistons and "Ceramic" bores are a poor choice in mini engines.

Mini riders as a whole DO NOT maintain their engines. Heads and pistons get run well past their service life, valve jobs never get freshened, clearances and timing (valve and ignition) events go unchecked, valve spring installed height... Huh? They're assemblers, not builders. Crap gets run until it falls out the bottom, then they pull more unverified parts from boxes and toss them at their engines. Or pay someone to do it for them.

Machine shops need to pay the rent too, just like partswhores

$10 each way shipping to KNOW your piston and cylinder are the right match for each other seems reasonable.

firepower354 · 10-31-2009, 02:29 PM

Oh, and to answer the question.... I'd suggest a 64-66mm setup, from me of course. You're going to split the cases for trans work, 4th drum, output shaft, stroker anyway, right? Might as well have me punch the cases. Cost is WAY less than the Tak kits, even with the add-ons of precision machining. It's a series, and thus you'd like power for the season, right? Nobody's came back complaining they've pulled the end off their throttle cable with one of my kits

T Bolt USA · 10-31-2009, 02:44 PM

Race results , Race Proven products
kyle davis and a host of other east coast racer i know personally runs tb160 in the 10" and tb184cc /165 in the 12" race bikes

for the record i never said one negative thing about your builds in anyway

trashing one of the most reputable and popular distributors in the USA ,HondaTB and one of 2 major japanese performance parts manufacturers Takagawa is very questionable,,,

YES race engines need to be maintained , but these kits produce MASSIVE POWER gains
so there are a VERY viable option

firepower354 · 10-31-2009, 03:50 PM

Yup, and their motors are not stuck together, outta the box, without careful precision work and measuring, and are maintained/replaced regularly. The average rider ain't Kyle Davis, and can't afford every week rebuilds, nor know how. OP seems to have a budget, and I was offering my suggestion to stay within it. I stand by them.

I didn't read anything anti-FP in any post, nor did I "trash" anyone

I merely disputed the logic behind composite/S-cut combos.
Anyone who gets their undies bunched is welcome to discuss it off-line. My phone's always on

My dislike for S-cut pistons has been discussed often, regardless of the name on the box, for legitimate reasons posted. Even WITH people who's name is on the box... MASSIVE POWER can co-exist with lower initial and season-long costs. In this humble retailer's opinion, anyway...

"we have one of the first 178 scuts made and its still on the original rings..."

MiniMob Racing · 11-04-2009, 04:15 AM

Excellent thread guys! Being the Takegawa distributor, we'll have to admit to some severe bias

, so we won't try to persuade the public in this venue, but it helps everybody when Terry and Vince (who both have a lot of experience in this specific field) share their knowledge. PM members are very intelligent and can see when retailers are just pushing sales, so lets put all that on the back burner for later in the thread.

Our experience has been very positive with using Takegawa SCUT pistons and cylinders with China bottom ends (with the exception of the China bottom ends

). Mark at AHP originally turned us on to the idea a couple of years ago and we have been knocking them out of our shop ever since. Not a single warranty claim for piston or top end failure, so we are still at a bit of a loss as to who is having troubles and why. Our shop bikes all use Takegawa SCUT pistons and cylinders and we can't seem to break them. In addition, there are a lot of big players in this industry that have had excellent experience with the SCUT setup, and have looked to us repeatedly for Takegawa top end kits.

This topic could definitely use some more discussion and perhaps we could get some perspectives on the benefits of forged aluminum pistons vs cast regarding heat distortion and wear characteristics. I know there has been a lot of R&D put into the SCUT pistons and cylinders to ensure proper matching at optimal engine temperatures, and this is why Takegawa insists on customers using their pistons only with their cylinders. This has also allowed tighter tolerances to be available at all temperatures, which should (all things being equal) produce more power.

Excellent point Terry, regarding cylinder wall to stud clearance getting too thin. This is definitely an issue that a lot of the newer big bore engines coming out of China and Thailand are going to face, due to the grade of materials they choose to supply. But then every problem is really just an opportunity waiting to happen! Keep this thread going, could be extremely useful to a lot of members!

10-31-2009, 05:36 AM	#1 (permalink)
08klx110 PM Newbie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: connecticut Posts: 20	which big bore kit i am lookin to run in the master of minis series in 2010 and i have all my suspension set up and stuff but i need a big bore kit. i am looking to spend uder 900 and get awesome power, i am most likely going to be runnung yoots,unlimited,and 10/12 rockstar for classes. what big bore kit should i get?

10-31-2009, 07:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,005 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit How long are you wanting it to live??? The S-cut makes great power, but almost everyone has discovered that they are limited in service life. Check the carnage pics posted regularly. We do some different bore size BBK's with a steel sleeve and skirt-type piston. Now that Dood's wandered back to "real" bikes, I'm the only one left that believes in the benefits of such a combo... __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

10-31-2009, 07:31 AM	#4 (permalink)
klx 110 master 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: CT Posts: 973 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit 165 v2 head stocker and 4 gear that about 890 bucks

10-31-2009, 07:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
T Bolt USA Advertiser Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,793 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit We believe in whats working in race engine , race engines need to be maintained , if your not going to change your rings on a regular time frame and replace pistons when needed We believe in RACE PROVEN TB parts , Takagawa parts actually we have one of the original 178cc / 67mm + kits from the very first batch that has been thru MANY races over the past year Nikasil and ceramic coated cylinders were the way of the future in 1985 !! EVERY MAJOR JAPANESE 4 STROKE MX BIKE IS A SHORT SKIRT SLIPPER PISTON COATED CYLINDER ENGINE __________________ T Bolt USA ALL top Pitbikes ,Engines and Parts for Pitbikes & Minis Website Contact THECRKID@TBOLTUSA.COM or Call 215-630-3554

10-31-2009, 07:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
T Bolt USA Advertiser Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,793 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit TB 184cc or Takagawa 178cc V2 head tb manual clutch takeagawa kevlar clutch plates and primary gear tb HD output shaft and 4 speed drum no machine shop required any can build this and go win races let me know when your ready or if this is to expensive __________________ T Bolt USA ALL top Pitbikes ,Engines and Parts for Pitbikes & Minis Website Contact THECRKID@TBOLTUSA.COM or Call 215-630-3554 Last edited by T Bolt USA; 10-31-2009 at 07:50 AM.

10-31-2009, 02:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,005 My Mood:	Can't degree in a cam before shipping :roll: EVERY MAJOR JAPANESE 4 STROKE MX BIKE IS A SHORT SKIRT SLIPPER PISTON COATED CYLINDER ENGINE And, is water cooled, with substantial aluminum around the bore for equal temperature, has a vastly different bore/stroke relationship than the slugs we ride, and even then have factory recommended piston lifespans shorter than a Beavis & Butthead Marathon. Different thickness aluminum expands at different rates. Different temperature aluminum expands at different rates. Air cooled engines, especially highly stressed ones, with bores crowding stud holes, SOHC, shielded cam tunnel, etc can NOT maintain ring seal due to bore distortion. For that reason, slipper skirt pistons and "Ceramic" bores are a poor choice in mini engines. Mini riders as a whole DO NOT maintain their engines. Heads and pistons get run well past their service life, valve jobs never get freshened, clearances and timing (valve and ignition) events go unchecked, valve spring installed height... Huh? They're assemblers, not builders. Crap gets run until it falls out the bottom, then they pull more unverified parts from boxes and toss them at their engines. Or pay someone to do it for them. Machine shops need to pay the rent too, just like partswhores $10 each way shipping to KNOW your piston and cylinder are the right match for each other seems reasonable. __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

10-31-2009, 02:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,005 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit Oh, and to answer the question.... I'd suggest a 64-66mm setup, from me of course. You're going to split the cases for trans work, 4th drum, output shaft, stroker anyway, right? Might as well have me punch the cases. Cost is WAY less than the Tak kits, even with the add-ons of precision machining. It's a series, and thus you'd like power for the season, right? Nobody's came back complaining they've pulled the end off their throttle cable with one of my kits __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories.

10-31-2009, 02:44 PM	#9 (permalink)
T Bolt USA Advertiser Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,793 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit Race results , Race Proven products kyle davis and a host of other east coast racer i know personally runs tb160 in the 10" and tb184cc /165 in the 12" race bikes for the record i never said one negative thing about your builds in anyway trashing one of the most reputable and popular distributors in the USA ,HondaTB and one of 2 major japanese performance parts manufacturers Takagawa is very questionable,,, YES race engines need to be maintained , but these kits produce MASSIVE POWER gains so there are a VERY viable option __________________ T Bolt USA ALL top Pitbikes ,Engines and Parts for Pitbikes & Minis Website Contact THECRKID@TBOLTUSA.COM or Call 215-630-3554 Last edited by T Bolt USA; 10-31-2009 at 02:48 PM.

10-31-2009, 03:50 PM	#10 (permalink)
firepower354 Advertiser Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Flint MI Posts: 11,005 My Mood:	Re: which big bore kit Yup, and their motors are not stuck together, outta the box, without careful precision work and measuring, and are maintained/replaced regularly. The average rider ain't Kyle Davis, and can't afford every week rebuilds, nor know how. OP seems to have a budget, and I was offering my suggestion to stay within it. I stand by them. I didn't read anything anti-FP in any post, nor did I "trash" anyone I merely disputed the logic behind composite/S-cut combos. Anyone who gets their undies bunched is welcome to discuss it off-line. My phone's always on My dislike for S-cut pistons has been discussed often, regardless of the name on the box, for legitimate reasons posted. Even WITH people who's name is on the box... MASSIVE POWER can co-exist with lower initial and season-long costs. In this humble retailer's opinion, anyway... "we have one of the first 178 scuts made and its still on the original rings..." __________________ If it has my name on it I did it;) FirepowerMinis.com Custom FPM parts and engines. Parts and service for all makes. Honda Trail Bikes parts and accessories. Pitster/Piranha/Thumpstar bikes, parts, engines and accessories. Last edited by firepower354; 10-31-2009 at 09:49 PM.

11-04-2009, 04:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
MiniMob Racing 1st Gear Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 32	Re: which big bore kit Excellent thread guys! Being the Takegawa distributor, we'll have to admit to some severe bias , so we won't try to persuade the public in this venue, but it helps everybody when Terry and Vince (who both have a lot of experience in this specific field) share their knowledge. PM members are very intelligent and can see when retailers are just pushing sales, so lets put all that on the back burner for later in the thread. Our experience has been very positive with using Takegawa SCUT pistons and cylinders with China bottom ends (with the exception of the China bottom ends ). Mark at AHP originally turned us on to the idea a couple of years ago and we have been knocking them out of our shop ever since. Not a single warranty claim for piston or top end failure, so we are still at a bit of a loss as to who is having troubles and why. Our shop bikes all use Takegawa SCUT pistons and cylinders and we can't seem to break them. In addition, there are a lot of big players in this industry that have had excellent experience with the SCUT setup, and have looked to us repeatedly for Takegawa top end kits. This topic could definitely use some more discussion and perhaps we could get some perspectives on the benefits of forged aluminum pistons vs cast regarding heat distortion and wear characteristics. I know there has been a lot of R&D put into the SCUT pistons and cylinders to ensure proper matching at optimal engine temperatures, and this is why Takegawa insists on customers using their pistons only with their cylinders. This has also allowed tighter tolerances to be available at all temperatures, which should (all things being equal) produce more power. Excellent point Terry, regarding cylinder wall to stud clearance getting too thin. This is definitely an issue that a lot of the newer big bore engines coming out of China and Thailand are going to face, due to the grade of materials they choose to supply. But then every problem is really just an opportunity waiting to happen! Keep this thread going, could be extremely useful to a lot of members!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)