Planet Minis

coax · 12-17-2007, 06:49 PM

Has anyone ridden all three or at least two of these motors? How do they compare in the way they make power?

I know they are all basically identical on the dyno for HP, but what about torque?

What would the YX150cc motor do with headwork, if 150cc was the displacement limit?

I'm looking for an engine that will make good road racing power and hopefully last a season with proper maintenance.

trailpimp33 · 12-17-2007, 07:59 PM

I have ridden the Cat 5 and SGR 146 BVH motors. The Cat 5 is more powerful for sure, although the SGR is no slouch just a very different power delivery.

Staggs Racing · 12-17-2007, 08:09 PM

I have to say backwards of trail pimp. I raced a cat 5 setup and it screams but a true sgr kit, not saying trail pimp rode or what he didnt ride, Is way faster.

coax · 12-17-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailpimp33

I have ridden the Cat 5 and SGR 146 BVH motors. The Cat 5 is more powerful for sure, although the SGR is no slouch just a very different power delivery.

Define a very different power delivery please? Just give your seat of the pants account.

coax · 12-17-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staggs Racing

I have to say backwards of trail pimp. I raced a cat 5 setup and it screams but a true sgr kit, not saying trail pimp rode or what he didnt ride, Is way faster.

Staggs, how would you describe the power delivery of both engines? Also what's the potential of the YX150 with headwork at 150cc?

Pitster · 12-17-2007, 10:00 PM

they all do a good job, there are several options you can take. we are tesing a plus r head now with stock bore, I think this may be a good option as well.

Staggs Racing · 12-18-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coax

Staggs, how would you describe the power delivery of both engines? Also what's the potential of the YX150 with headwork at 150cc?

The sgr engine over the cat 5 delivers more torque, and still pulls hard through mid and top over the cat 5 setup I had.

Staggs Racing · 12-18-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coax

Staggs, how would you describe the power delivery of both engines? Also what's the potential of the YX150 with headwork at 150cc?

There is alot of potential with the new 150 engines. Head work and a good cam makes a good improvment on a stock 150, although add a 165 kit and you have a good power plant. We are also working on a new big valve head soon to be released. Both engines deliver good torque, how ever untill you get a good working head on the 150 the 146 pulls more on top.

Staggs Racing · 12-18-2007, 08:24 AM

I do want to add I had a cat5 head that was worked over and decked,raising the compression and it made a good improvment also adding more bottom end.

Kurlon · 12-18-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coax

Define a very different power delivery please? Just give your seat of the pants account.

My motor is a variant of the T5, 58mm bore, 1mm oversized valves, Kendall doing the work. If the regular T5 is like mine, it's a deceptive motor. There's no real power 'hit,' it's got a very broad power spread that comes on linearly. I've taken to describing the motor as feeling 'lazy' because it never feels like you're straining it.

I've got some fairly high comp, smaller displacement motors and when you ride them, you know you're on a built mill, they're twitchy on light throttle input, high strung, finicky, and the power tends to pile on suddenly once you cross a magic rev threshold. My 151 has the same soft, loping character as a stock Jialing 125, it just pulls much harder across the board.

I can't compare to SGR or AHP builds as I've not ridden either, and Kendall will need to confirm if my 151 is similar to his 146 T5 builds.

coax · 12-18-2007, 10:27 AM

This is some good info being shared. Hopefully some others with these engines will chime in. I like a bigger hit in the dirt, but on asphalt I like a more linear delivery (track configuration dependent). I've ridden engines that the hit was so big that I couldn't get on the gas as early as wanted or keep the front wheel down to finish the turn.

micro75 · 12-18-2007, 03:40 PM

I think any of the above would do a good job but make sure who ever you go with that you explain what type of power you expect this is were the builder can really help. On the 150 it seems to be very solid and alot can be done just in tuning and the aftermarket will only grow as the engine is more widely used and more start playing with different combinations My .02 cents

slater · 12-18-2007, 06:37 PM

I have run the T5 146 kit and the T5 165 kit. There is a lot of great things I can say about both builds, but what you really need to know is that T5 has great customer service.

I personally had some clutch problems at the track and Kendall was more than happen to grap a wrench and help fix the problem.

Quality products and offerings and after the sale service is what I Value.

trailpimp33 · 12-19-2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coax

Define a very different power delivery please? Just give your seat of the pants account.

Here is my "seat of the pants" assesment of both the Cat-5 and SGR motors. While both make great power, the SGR seems to mimick the power delivery of the stock GPX head, not in terms of all out power NO but the way it delivers that power. The SGR motor comes on strong in the bottom to mid, but then seems to fall flat after that, the Cat-5 motor pulls longer and higher in the RPM range. I don't know what dyno numbers the SGR puts out but I know that the Cat 5 makes 15+ (mine made just a hair over 16 with a pe28 and race fuel).
The bottom line is both are really good motors, it just depends on what you are looking for in terms of your power delivery. You also want to consider that going with a good porter like Cat 5 you can work with them to get what you want. The SGR head is good out of the box, but it is an interpretation of a worked head. Hey, some like chocolate, some like vanilla, and some like to make there own sundaes!!!!

High Maintenance · 12-19-2007, 11:31 AM

i donno but mark built my motor and it shot out from underneather me the first time I got on it. Touchy throttle, I learned some respect.

okay that was irrelevant

p3racer · 12-19-2007, 11:31 AM

AHP hands down

coax · 12-19-2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Maintenance

i donno but mark built my motor and it shot out from underneather me the first time I got on it. Touchy throttle, I learned some respect.

okay that was irrelevant

That is not irrelevant to me! That is a sign of good throttle response and an engine that starts to make power RIGHT NOW! Was that with the 26mm carb? I always made whatever mods on my full size motocross bikes to get that response and used a mature throttle turn. I've looked at a lot of Mark's dynos from engines he's built and they all have long powerbands. He just built me an 88cc, but the weather isn't cooperating. I can wait to try it out.

Good discussion. Keep it coming!

buellboy · 12-19-2007, 02:54 PM

I do not have any experience with SGR or T-5 builds but I can say without any doubt that Mark's builds are great.

I have a couple builds in street service today - 107cc Stage 3 and a 114cc with an XR 50 transmission. Both builds have been exceptionally durable. The 107 is extremely smooth and has long legs. The 114 seems to have a little more snap with a power band that is very similar to the 107.

Both have the small valve heads with AHP cams and port job. I am running Keihen 24mm carbs on both. I would recommend these builds to anyone working on a street build.

Todd

Staggs Racing · 12-19-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trailpimp33

The SGR head is good out of the box, but it is an interpretation of a worked head. Hey, some like chocolate, some like vanilla, and some like to make there own sundaes!!!!

The SGR hea is ported and worked here in CA. Just wanted to verify that.

T Bolt USA · 12-19-2007, 09:30 PM

our t-5 motor were dyno run at 15.4 hp rear wheel
this same motor has just been reviewed on our site after over a year running and is still going strong

im not sure the others have done dynos ? but im sure there motor run well also

at this point i think the best direction to go is with the yx150

1) there are no bottom neutral jialing 124cc or yx140cc motors in country to base the build on !!

2) info from factory thumpstar racer tyson clark is they pulled out a fully worked jialing and put the t-5 165cc yx motor in his bike and he loves it

yes gary the take heads are best (but costly and 0 parts are availble as of yet)

but the tb head ported and 165cc kit with spec cam makes stupid power that is very smooth

12-17-2007, 06:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
coax 1st Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 153	SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores Has anyone ridden all three or at least two of these motors? How do they compare in the way they make power? I know they are all basically identical on the dyno for HP, but what about torque? What would the YX150cc motor do with headwork, if 150cc was the displacement limit? I'm looking for an engine that will make good road racing power and hopefully last a season with proper maintenance.

12-17-2007, 07:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
trailpimp33 3rd Gear Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,652	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I have ridden the Cat 5 and SGR 146 BVH motors. The Cat 5 is more powerful for sure, although the SGR is no slouch just a very different power delivery.

12-17-2007, 08:09 PM	#3 (permalink)
Staggs Racing Advertiser Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: victorville,ca Posts: 6,753 My Mood:	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I have to say backwards of trail pimp. I raced a cat 5 setup and it screams but a true sgr kit, not saying trail pimp rode or what he didnt ride, Is way faster. __________________ Website WWW.STAGGS-RACING.COM Shop OnlineWWW.SGR-USA.COM CONTACT@SGR-USA.COM PHONE #760-964-1203 WWW.MYSPACE.COM/SGRUSA

12-17-2007, 10:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Pitster Advertiser Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lindon, Utah Posts: 3,202	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores they all do a good job, there are several options you can take. we are tesing a plus r head now with stock bore, I think this may be a good option as well. __________________ Home of Pitster Pro Pitbikes and GPX Moto Engines. BIG BIKES AND SMALL BIKES, Dual sport, ATV, Parts and accessories! Check out the new Classic Pitster Pro and Street minis! Get Value and Performance ALL IN ONE! Import parts, accessories, fab shop, custom motor builds, classic ct 70 parts and more. www.pitsterpro.com contact@pitsterpro.com Tech Help and forum http://www.pitsterpro.com/forum/ 801.796.7416 Dealers Welcome http://www.facebook.com/pitster1

12-18-2007, 08:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
Staggs Racing Advertiser Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: victorville,ca Posts: 6,753 My Mood:	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I do want to add I had a cat5 head that was worked over and decked,raising the compression and it made a good improvment also adding more bottom end. __________________ Website WWW.STAGGS-RACING.COM Shop OnlineWWW.SGR-USA.COM CONTACT@SGR-USA.COM PHONE #760-964-1203 WWW.MYSPACE.COM/SGRUSA

12-18-2007, 10:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
coax 1st Gear Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 153	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores This is some good info being shared. Hopefully some others with these engines will chime in. I like a bigger hit in the dirt, but on asphalt I like a more linear delivery (track configuration dependent). I've ridden engines that the hit was so big that I couldn't get on the gas as early as wanted or keep the front wheel down to finish the turn.

12-18-2007, 03:40 PM	#12 (permalink)
micro75 2nd Gear Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hermitage, PA Posts: 561	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I think any of the above would do a good job but make sure who ever you go with that you explain what type of power you expect this is were the builder can really help. On the 150 it seems to be very solid and alot can be done just in tuning and the aftermarket will only grow as the engine is more widely used and more start playing with different combinations My .02 cents

12-18-2007, 06:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
slater 2nd Gear Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: O o O Town, Fl Posts: 917	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I have run the T5 146 kit and the T5 165 kit. There is a lot of great things I can say about both builds, but what you really need to know is that T5 has great customer service. I personally had some clutch problems at the track and Kendall was more than happen to grap a wrench and help fix the problem. Quality products and offerings and after the sale service is what I Value.

12-19-2007, 11:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
High Maintenance Hohe Wartung Frau Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Where the cow poo is plentiful Posts: 1,473 My Mood:	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores i donno but mark built my motor and it shot out from underneather me the first time I got on it. Touchy throttle, I learned some respect. okay that was irrelevant

12-19-2007, 11:31 AM	#16 (permalink)
p3racer Founding Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 6,257	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores AHP hands down

12-19-2007, 02:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
buellboy PM Newbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iowa Posts: 74	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores I do not have any experience with SGR or T-5 builds but I can say without any doubt that Mark's builds are great. I have a couple builds in street service today - 107cc Stage 3 and a 114cc with an XR 50 transmission. Both builds have been exceptionally durable. The 107 is extremely smooth and has long legs. The 114 seems to have a little more snap with a power band that is very similar to the 107. Both have the small valve heads with AHP cams and port job. I am running Keihen 24mm carbs on both. I would recommend these builds to anyone working on a street build. Todd

12-19-2007, 09:30 PM	#20 (permalink)
T Bolt USA Advertiser Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,791 My Mood:	Re: SGR .vs. AHP .vs. T-5 big bores our t-5 motor were dyno run at 15.4 hp rear wheel this same motor has just been reviewed on our site after over a year running and is still going strong im not sure the others have done dynos ? but im sure there motor run well also at this point i think the best direction to go is with the yx150 1) there are no bottom neutral jialing 124cc or yx140cc motors in country to base the build on !! 2) info from factory thumpstar racer tyson clark is they pulled out a fully worked jialing and put the t-5 165cc yx motor in his bike and he loves it yes gary the take heads are best (but costly and 0 parts are availble as of yet) but the tb head ported and 165cc kit with spec cam makes stupid power that is very smooth __________________ T Bolt USA ALL top Pitbikes ,Engines and Parts for Pitbikes & Minis Website Contact THECRKID@TBOLTUSA.COM or Call 215-630-3554

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