pro payout

[art5]

Very curious in this discussion, been around big bikes with my sons pretty much all their lives, although I am only a lowly vet rider, 47 yrs old I build their bikes and pretty much sponsor my two sons who race the pro class, taken me some time to get my oldest one to even show, and thats pretty much over after last nights pay out. Just want opinions

Lets say you go to a series race well the shomestatepitbike series in particular, you end up having four riders in the 12 in pro class, your rider places second, only one gets paid, Ask why and its the track owners decision. Now move up to this year, New sponsor,{Monster energy} who puts up an extra 50 dollars per class, so payout drops to 100 percent from the 125 I believe it was last year,I could be wrong there though, apparently I am a complainer.

One rider shows up consistantly in the 10 in pro on a borrowed bike, reels in his entry fee with the 50.00 dollars bonus, well for the lack of sounding silly, and he is a very good rider. dont get me wrong but no matter how fast its hard to pass yourself or hole shot yourself. Again, is this really a race, actually would think just signing up and having them give you the money would be pretty easy, but for the sake of riding, well if you crashed out yourself, in the first lap its pretty much a guarantee, you draw in a handy 50 plus your entry.

While the 12 in pro has 4 riders, two of which are mine, lol. The winner takes in 35 for his entry back and 55.00 dollars for the win, and we pay back 4 positions of the four riding, which included the 50 dollar bonus cash split between the four. And the response you get when you ask the question, well the end of it anyway forwarded to my son, was well ya can't please everyone, and that they have had a 100 different people complain and offer up advice on how it should be done. And that I should be greatful because my middle son got payed for third, My thoughts on that are my middle son got third, if he wants paid , needs to step it up, welcome to the po class. I am dubbed as a complainer, for asking, and the track owners supposedly make up the payout, yet when My son asked him he says its the promoters, although the amatuers generally get 1/3 to half trophy in the class.



Although I was told that the tracks and promoters lose money on the pros. So I cant possibly see the advantage of ever moving up.

As amatuers this has very little effect on alot of you, but we have been in the racing scene a long time, and have yet to see this part of it this dissorganized.

There is no consistancy with the pro payout with the exception of if your the only rider in a pro class, you sign up, ride around the track, go through the flag, and collect your fee back as well as the bonus contingency, yet if no one shows up in the 10 in they have been known to add it to the 12 in purse. so theres a plus, well have to say though kind of unlikely when a rider knows the other end of it and its a quick 50 lol and your money back. Somewhere i read 3 riders make up a class, oh well thats a silly rule, discard that one.

I personally have nothin to gain from it cause it only cost me money, but beings there my sons and I talked them into this, hell built them one off bikes for it, they are my sons and have worked there asses off to get to the level they are in, would kind of like to see payout consistant and worth makin the trip for. Personally I just enjoy watchin my boys race. And the time and the effort I have into these bikes to even get them out there. The rewards for me are simple. that being the smile on there faces, beings no profit goes to Dad anyway, lol.



So for the sake of argument here, against me or for me is not the point. the point here is to open up the discussion for pro pay out, but if you have any class tips to make there series grow, I am sure it would be appreciated as well. As a pro pitbike rider in either class, how should pay out be split up in the class, most of you have paid your dues to get here, and you obviously dont make the series any money.lol.

I do know there is a very good race with a healthy purse coming up at crw, and it will be worth hitting, and I am sure any advice you guys in the top slots can offer will not fall on deaf ears there.

We have some very good tracks this year by the way, although some are a bit long for some, always a blast. kind of prefer the big outdoor ones anyway.

sincerely art5

[PlanetMinis.com]

[williegbiker]

Should be:



Pay to Podium 1st - 3rd



..... if only 4 show up pay 1st and 2nd



.......if only 3 show up pay 1st only









10inch pro is a legit class the money is there to drawl more people in ... you can't just take money away ... then add it back.. and trust me the lonely 10inch rider would like to see more people to ride with, $25 (**only $25 to 10 inch and $25 to 12inch = $50 total for monster bucks) is not necessarly a cash cow....

[art5]

see misinformed again, so its 25 to each class, not 50, damn I feel bad for speakin up, lol. no hell with that I am a complainer, I retract that about feelin bad for speakin up. Stephen said justins bike was fast, when you gettin your 255 done brach, lol

[crwclev]

I don't know how Gabe plans on working the CRW payout. I can tell you that suggestions from each of the pros prior to the race would make our (his) life alot easier. This way, if everybody agrees...then everybody will leave knowing that they got a fair shake no matter if they take home the money or not. Do you think it would be possible to get that info. from all of the pros?

[kennys_cousin]

The "bonus" money was $50 from monster and $50 from sign source total for both classes at the start of the series. Breaking down



10" pro

1st $25

2nd $15

3rd $10



12" pro

1st $25

2nd $15

3rd $10



And if there was only 1 or 2 riders the sponsors didn't pay out the left over. I go planing on riding both classes because I want the track time and any extra money I can to help pay for the drive. I hate drive 10+hrs round trip to race 1 class.





I HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR A PAYOUT CHART SINCE THE SERIES STARTED!!! It has goten a lot better but still there still needs to be a know chart ahead time so ALL QUESTIONS are already answered.

[kennys_cousin]

10inch pro is a legit class the money is there to drawl more people in ... you can't just take money away ... then add it back.. and trust me the lonely 10inch rider would like to see more people to ride with.....

Both classes should have the same "Bonus" money. BOTH ARE PRO CLASSES!!! Why should one class have less money because there is less riders. That part works it self out in the % part of the payout.

[SteveS]

Last year, Michael Simmoneau was never entered in a race with four racers in 12" Pro. http://shomepitbikeseries.com/12%27%27%20Pro.htm

He ran one race with two and one with three, and got second in both.

Last year the pro payout was entirely up to the track promoters, and we don't know what they paid out other than the total percentage of entry. We had left it to the tracks to determine how to split it.



This year we have taken the pro payout in as something we have a say in rather than the track owner. We state on the website pay 100% back, to 50% of the entries. There is also the bonus money from sponsors which has been mentioned above.



At the third round, where there were no 10" Pros entered, we decided to "sweeten the pot" for the 12" Pros and used the sponsor money meant for the 10" Pro class to pay farther down in 12" Pro. We continued that because there has been only one racer in the 10" Pro since then.



If you wish, we can just pay purse to the 50% of the class, just pay the sponsor money to them, and keep the leftover sponsor money.



It seems like it was a nice thing to go ahead and pay out all the money that had been donated that there was no one to give it to. But if it causes problems, we won't do it any more.



We don't have a rule that three riders make a class. We are currently allowing every class that has even one entry to run, though we do combine classes to run in the same moto to save time and allow people to ride with others on the track. I guess we could refuse the lone 10" Pro entry and send him home. Or the lone 10" Senior Youth. Or the two Women Open riders. But that wouldn't be very productive, would it?

[T719mx]

Looks like to me after reading the first post, that the series is doing alot more to help the riders. Paying guys that otherwise wouldn't have is a bonus for them. Including Micheal who benefited from what they did twice. And it's clearly posted on the website. So what's the deal. Why all the fuss??

[art5]

You still harp on michael bein the issue, Has nothin to do with it. Did Steve just state 50 percent payout, did I misread that, If michael wants payout, michael needs to dedicate the effort to improving his speed to get there, nothing is gained by hand outs, they wernt taught that way and never will be. Its simple talked to j rob, you have a pro am class sugestion, was simply suggested as an advancement gimmick, nothin more, Gave the pros with one bike a chance to ride more than one class, and the amatuers a chance to see how they ranked in the pro class. Get there feet wet so to speak. You brought this up today bales,where was tyler and the number one plate in the class, accused me of this very thing I never rode it , and why is that, Simply because no pros entered, Justin stated it unknowingly, and understandable, its because for him there was nothin to gain.

You have no advancement so of course your 12 am class is huge, look at your son, won it last year and where is he this year,

Yea fixing to step on some toes. Its not like I havent put in my time for the last 20 some odd years in this sport

You have no beginner class for new people to step up into the series with no experience, and instead of the pro class growing, it sits there. and the amatuers can stay as long as they like, I have not stated anything in my favor in no way does this benefit me, have heard several experts complain on the purse, I am just the builder of two bikes in that class, You dont see me chasin points in a class and complaining about the turn out in the vet, it sucks, but I enjoy it,

I went through more protest than i can count last year, every time someone bitched, i was forced to change things, I did it, complied built two great bikes, and kept on rolling. However there is room for improvement, this is not california, its not vegas, its Mo. You want pros offer a consistant payout,

I was told the pros cost the series money, and you make nothin on the pro purse, Although when those pros bring family and friends, as well as other amatuers, are you letting those people in for free, are the fence rows lined for the one rider classes with spectators, it does not make them any less important, just the fact remains you learn more from the faster riders than you do the amatuer classes, So in a nut shell stand behind your purse, divide the purse up as a whole, instead of picking and choosing who gets the sponsors cut, And if the series can only pull one 10 in rider why is that, For the pros its the money. for the amatuers, well some of them its the hope of moving to the pro ranks, improving your skills, and for us old fockers its the chance to spend time with friends and family in pit bike racing.

One rider does not make a race, putting one rider from 3 different classes is not racing, Like I said never seen a rider pass himself for the win, Why are your turn outs low. where did all the 50 riders from last year go. I have been placed in this single rider category several times since I started it, For what reward am I searching for bales, you see me cherry pickin a class, hell I take myself off the roster and still pay my way, The vets are about as fun a group to ride with as I have ever been in. .

Simply put I offered up suggestions, and i am a complainer,

1 make up a beginner class, 1 yr eligibility{ has to be a starting place for riders with no experience. it sure as ghell aint your amatuer classes.}

2 advance your top three amatuers, {within reason }

3 make a consistant payout schedule, and it worth while for your faster riders to come around to elevate your series

Whether or not I attend is a small piece of the pie, one lowly vet rider. Elevating your series does not revolve around picking up new riders and losing old ones, thats called changing of the guard, tit for tat. I for one would gladly pay to see Stephen, tyler rickey and dennis hotson, dennis jonon, along with all the riders go at it. How many spectaters go to amatuer day to watch the race before the pros, now how many attend the pros. You have a host of very good pros in this area, shame we cant get them all at the track together, why is that Steve Bales you have all the answers, If the fast guys talk up the series, your more than likely goin to pull more riders, how many pro riders show up bein led by amatuers, try the other way around.

I am not the guy you should be gettin any info from, Your from mo. one of the best promoters, in the area is RJ, always has great turn outs and commands alot of respect,when he sets rules he stands firm. great events as well. You dont have to listen to anything I say, defend every point I put out there, this aint new stuff, its been an age old problem, the trick is to figure it out, Your the only series on pit bikes in the 4 surrounding states, and we pull how many riders, am I wrong here, You pulled up your stats Steve S lets have a look see. If you say your goin to pay 50 percent pay it, if you have a purse amount anounce it and pay it out, skip the donations, and it dont matter whos up front when its divied out, Chances are its the best rider at the end, and the fastest aint always the best.

You have a series where ya count every rd, the reason I was told is the ama motocross does it, **** happens things come up, events are conflicted. Guaranteed to drop rider turn outs once they are out of contention, This aint the ama. How many showed at the awards banquet last year. Steve S you are to be commended for all your efforts, I have nothin against you or the series, I offered up a way for riders to voice input. not all input can be positive, its how a promoter uses both of the info that makes him make it happen, Sometimes a person can get more use from negative input than they can from positive reinforcement, just depends on what they do with it, characture can be defined in such ways.

If you have the extra money and cant figure out what to do with it make a 5 lap dash for cash for the experts, amatuers would need to advance for that chance. gives ya another class, that will most likely draw a few more.

Have you ever heard anyone that races and encounters an obvious sand bagger, and says damn I dont know why he doesnt just race pro he could make money, if i was that fast I damn sure would. { just a thought here, that one word pops up again} If ya had a chance as an expert to race for a 300.dollar purse, and came back with 50.00 of it how would ya feel, I am guessing pretty good, knowin you had that chance, just didnt happen that day. It dont matter to me one bit. I benefit nothin from it, i still work on my bikes pay all the bills on them, and its damn tough as a single dad. It could have been Justin Daniels first and then Brach, fair is fair. if they won it they earned it. Enough ranting, form your own opinions, Not my place, just opened up a door that needs to be opened, i still have my big bikes, and these little fellas can stay parked, I can just build a couple more over the next year, buy some property drink a few with my friends and go at it, and have just as much fun, nice thing about bein elderly. I can easily amuse myself.

[T719mx]

You wanted the pro am class yet you never entered it nor did anyone else. Pointless. Then you blame danials that wasn't in that class. Pointless you complained about age limit for vet got it changed. Then cried to get it changed back cause it was boring. And now you want to jus run 12am. WTF makeup your mind. Your son didn't have to except the unearned money but he did, thanks to my dad and steve Sui fir trying to help him and the others they shouldn't have help at all. Then mybe you'd still find something to cry about iam sure.they didn't have to but they tried to help. But dint blame if they don't now. As for me I am moving to pro class. So don't worry bout me.

[art5]

Oh thats right mr number 1 plate, Did I see any pros in the pro am, as I remember I was goin to run three classes the first rd ran two, no pros entered pro am, wait were you in it, and where were you this weekend tyler, blamed daniels for what tyler exactly, and run your mouth about michael to michael, see how that pans out for ya. and for the record who cried about the vet class, i was the one that talked to Jim about keeping it at 30 wasnt fair to the guys they switched it on, before running your mouth get your facts straight. Put up or shut up. where were you again this weekend. tyler.

[art5]

Next rd cabool, step up and be counted.

[T719mx]

I don't have any issue with micheal. Just saying that your post complained about pro purse. Iam trying to point out that the series didn't have to give down to the other 2.

[T719mx]

Why do you bring up the number I run?? What does that have to do with this conversation?? Nothen. You have known and have helped me. So why are you getting bent out of shape with me. I have reasons if I don't race. That's my business. Noone else's.

[art5]

exactly the point, it pays out 50 percent, It was unfair to cut the purse for the first and second place riders dont matter if my son was paid or not has nothin to do with my sons, read the damn post.

[fifty_boytim]

not to sound bad but your pro pay outs suck you would at least be expecting 300 minimum for pro pay outs no wonder no one shows up

[SteveS]

I see that you are an experienced track operator and race promoter and know where to get the minimum $300 so easily week after week? Why don't you share it with all of us?



Of course, we have had some races this year when the pro payout was way more than $300 because there were more entries....and an announced pro payout of $300 really works out to only $150 per class, which we exceeded in the 12" pro class at the last race which brought up this complaint, but don't let that confuse you.

[SteveS]

As to the payout, Art, we will go back to only paying out exactly what it states on the website. 100% payback to 50% of the class plus the bonus of $25 for first, $15 for second, and $10 for third in each class, and we will not deviate from it for the rest of the series. We will remain consistent on that.



We will also pay the first and second place racers in the 12" Pro from the last round their portions of the $25 that was paid to the third place racer, to make up for having deviated from the stated payout. They just need to come to me at the next race in Cabool. I'll hand it over on the spot.

I'm through with trying to improve things as we go along. It just makes things worse.

[fifty_boytim]

iam actualy an experienced fmx event coirdinator . and i normaly wont even bother anouncing an event unless i have over 1000 for first place other wise you just dont get the numbers i also do occasional race meets at tthe fmx events were its a winner takes all usualy about 600 or as u said the more riders the more money there is to win

[art5]

See the point is this, its not to start an argument, its to give you as promoters of this series some input from the pros, actually how many have you had this discussion with. Instead of listening to the riders input you came on here, feeling threatened, and most of the riders that commented are actually in your series, And yes stick to the program, not asking for a hand out. Keep your money put it into the next rd for the pros, try to attract the guys who spend thousands on there bikes to compete at a level consistant with that. Like I said usually they bring a couple more to the game. Constructive criticism, should be taken in just that manner.

As for the guy that says your payout sucks, well its his opinion. work on improving it. I am not a promoter, But do see quite a few banners hanging at the races you and steve hang. with the exception of monster, and your company would be the only two I see chipping into the actual pro purse. kind of a catch 22 I know more riders mean more money between them, but the pros generally follow the money. guess it depends how you fish, and is the bait right for the area. but I do know paying out as you list in your rules is important. when a fast guy shows up know matter who he is, and wins, and sees every pro get paid. whats to make him drive the distance to return.